13 Apr 93 20:43:32 EDT Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Re- 6r vs 1000 <9304132340.AA14031@korgrd.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 20:43:13 -0400 From: Yoshiaki_Ohshima@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU the 6r i own has not troubled me yet, however, i remember on r.m.s. or someplace else it was pointed out that 6r has audible leaks when the output volume is jacked up. speaking on which, about some weeks ago i found one on sale at a local music store for $195. it looked mint--at least had no exterior damages and looked better than mine. pity, i didn't have $ up front, the store had a fire shortly after. i wonder if that one found a good home. lastly (before the thread dies out...), does anyone know if i could get a copy of service manual? is oberheim still part of gibson and do they provide such help?? --aki (queueing-rmail) id 194636.2667; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 19:46:36 EDT Date: 13 Apr 1993 16:44:09 -0800 From: "Dan" Subject: Re: Re- 6r vs 1000 Cc: "Analogue Synth Mailing List" > > I was wondering what would be the benefit of selling my Matrix 1000 and > >buying a Matrix 6r. The 6r can edit patches, right? How many patches can it > >store? I know this has been discussed before, but a good comparison contrast > >would be great. My Matrix 1000 is probably my fave piece right now (in answer > >to another post) so the 6r would have to offer alot for me to go to it. I mean, > >right now I can edit patches on the 1000 with my PC. > Fertha luvva Ghod, man, don't do it! The Matrix-6R was built by Sakata > Shokai in Japan under the direction of Oberheim's tech staff, with very > poor quality control... while a few units I know of are reliable, many > others have power supply problems and other nastinesses. The Matrix-1000 > was and is built in America under DIRECT Oberheim quality control, and > is a much more stable unit. The one thing the 6R can do is splits and > stereo, but you're better off (MUCH!) with two M1000s, esp. if you have > a front panel editor on your PC that you like. The problem with the Xk, > Matrix-6 and 6R, were that Oberheim allowed the Japanese companies that > produced them (Sakata Shokai and later Hammond Suzuki) to re-engineer > them with lower costs in mind, and never doublechecked the changes for > long-term reliability. I spent $700 for my Xk in 1987; I just sold it > for $220 and consider myself lucky! > > -- > mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * > metlay@netcom.com On the other hand, the two people I know with Matrix 1000s complain - a lot - about its hum problems. I have a 6r, and it's quiet as a mouse. I've never played with an Xk, so I can't comment on its reliability - but hum is a feature that I try to avoid. We all know, of course, that American companies are models of reliabilty in comparison to Japanese companies - look at Sequential and Ensoniq, for instance, as compared to Roland and Yamaha. ;-) Not that I would make the inverse assumption, either, of course... BTW, in answer to the original question, the 6r can store 100 patches and 50 splits. Individual outs for each side of the split (no stereo panning, though, as the previous message might imply). - Dan Phillips From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay) Subject: Re: What's a module? and the Oberheim Xpander Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 14:46:33 PDT Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Analogue Synth Mailing List) >(heh heh) Yeah, I usually bring out that reaction in folx. >Actually, I've come more to terms with my Xpander - I love complex >modulations, and with a patient approach I can make it nice and complex. >I just wasn't long on patience when I first got it. And I still like >"hot" (as in overdriven slightly) sounding instruments, as well as >corroded ones, so it's cleanliness made me a little cold at first. >I would love to hear some of your patches sometime. When the XUG gets up and going, I'll post them, including my infamous give-a-woman-an-orgasm-at-fifty-paces patch. >Now, the SEM is such a simple little thing, but it seems I keep going >into that well and getting so much out of it...like, adding just a touch >of high pass to the low pass filter (since it's a continuously variable >multimode) to add a little air; overdriving the pulse width with a fast >envelope to get a delayed "click" at the starts of notes, etc. Well, Studio Electronics is advertising a rackable mono synth with a Minimoog filter and an SEM filter for less than a racked Mini costs, and I think I just heard the OBMX die.... >To each his or her own. Variety is great. That's why I have it in my >own studio. I confess that I occasionally miss the way my rig looked a few years ago, with the Xpander, Pro-One, MC-202, Taurus II, Bit One, Polaris, and EH MiniSynth all going at once.... but MAN did my studio get hot in a hurry. -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll survive. Indeed I will. But boy will I ever be confused. (s. kellogg) From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay) Subject: Re: 6r vs 1000 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 14:42:01 PDT Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Analogue Synth Mailing List) > I was wondering what would be the benefit of selling my Matrix 1000 and >buying a Matrix 6r. The 6r can edit patches, right? How many patches can it >store? I know this has been discussed before, but a good comparison contrast >would be great. My Matrix 1000 is probably my fave piece right now (in answer >to another post) so the 6r would have to offer alot for me to go to it. I mean, >right now I can edit patches on the 1000 with my PC. Fertha luvva Ghod, man, don't do it! The Matrix-6R was built by Sakata Shokai in Japan under the direction of Oberheim's tech staff, with very poor quality control... while a few units I know of are reliable, many others have power supply problems and other nastinesses. The Matrix-1000 was and is built in America under DIRECT Oberheim quality control, and is a much more stable unit. The one thing the 6R can do is splits and stereo, but you're better off (MUCH!) with two M1000s, esp. if you have a front panel editor on your PC that you like. The problem with the Xk, Matrix-6 and 6R, were that Oberheim allowed the Japanese companies that produced them (Sakata Shokai and later Hammond Suzuki) to re-engineer them with lower costs in mind, and never doublechecked the changes for long-term reliability. I spent $700 for my Xk in 1987; I just sold it for $220 and consider myself lucky! -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll survive. Indeed I will. But boy will I ever be confused. (s. kellogg) <01GWYSN9K7DC8X29TD@iscsvax.uni.edu>; Tue, 13 Apr 1993 14:44:41 CST Date: 13 Apr 1993 14:44:41 -0600 (CST) From: GINGERIC9178@iscsvax.uni.edu Subject: 6r vs 1000 Hello, I was wondering what would be the benefit of selling my Matrix 1000 and buying a Matrix 6r. The 6r can edit patches, right? How many patches can it store? I know this has been discussed before, but a good comparison contrast would be great. My Matrix 1000 is probably my fave piece right now (in answer to another post) so the 6r would have to offer alot for me to go to it. I mean, right now I can edit patches on the 1000 with my PC. Rob Williams From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay) Subject: Re: What's a module? and the Oberheim Xpander Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 10:22:14 PDT Chris Meyer sez: >Just for fun, I think I'll pick a playful public fight with you over the >claim that the Xpander is the ultimate. Okay, I own one, and probably won't >ever part with it, but I am amazed that something with that much user interface >can be so slow and painful to use (maybe the mod routing page of the M-12 >transplanted to the X would help me...). It also isn't nasty enough. Tom >Oberheim used to trim the circuits in the old beasts by ear, and usually >ended up with a little overdrive. In the Xpander, Marcus & Michel went >for the engineering-perfect approach, figuring you could "program" the dirt >if you want it. Yeah, and we can fix it in the mix. (Aside: Rev 1 & 2 Prophet >5s are also known to be dirtier; the Rev 3 was engineered too well...) >I have a 2-voice with the old SEM modules and for as simplistic as it is, >it never lets me down. Chris, in 1987 or 1988 if you'd said something like this to me, I would have flamed you from here to eternity and called you all sorts of horrible names. The Xpander was my first real synth, my first wife (my second wife Suzanne is horribly jealous of it) and the be-all and end-all of my musical existence from 1985 until about 1988 or 1989; in fact, my first album was recorded with the Xpander controlled by an MC-202 and an Xk triggered by a TR-707 and nothing else on most tracks. At Craig Anderton's suggestion, I launched the Xpander User Group and garnered over a hundred members from around the world, providing my newsletter to them for free on a quarterly basis, and built up a huge technical support system for the Monster all over the planet. However. In 1986 I went into a music store and heard my first Prophet VS, and all was not peaceful in the Garden of Eden any longer. I spent 1988 in Atomic City with no gear but an Xpander and a DW-8000, and found myself using the DW more than the Xpander most days. I bought and sold a huge number of other synths in the meantime before finally settling into my current rig, and I now understand the appeal of grungier synths like the rev1 P5 or the Polysix, with their lovely SSM chips, or the Moogs with their overdrive capabilities, and so on. I even own a sample playback synth now, and if anyone had told me that in 1989 I would have spit in their eye. Times change. However. The Xpander is still my baby. I'm so used to the interface that I no longer think of it as confusing or slow; the M12 is actually worse, because I feel a need to use the Mod Routings page and I'm not used to it. It's got loads and loads of wonderful hooks, and I can make it sound as grungy as I need it to be with little trouble. I do wish it had two VCOs and a separate noise source, and global or multitimbral MIDI volume control hardwired without having to use a Lever or Pedal, but this was 1984, after all, and we've learned a lot since then. The SEM was a fun little boxoid, and very useful, but if I had to start over again from scratch, an Xpander would be the first thing I bought. -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll survive. Indeed I will. But boy will I ever be confused. (s. kellogg) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 09:55:50 -0700 From: Chris Meyer Subject: Re: What's a module? and the Oberheim Xpander Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Just for fun, I think I'll pick a playful public fight with you over the claim that the Xpander is the ultimate. Okay, I own one, and probably won't ever part with it, but I am amazed that something with that much user interface can be so slow and painful to use (maybe the mod routing page of the M-12 transplanted to the X would help me...). It also isn't nasty enough. Tom Oberheim used to trim the circuits in the old beasts by ear, and usually ended up with a little overdrive. In the Xpander, Marcus & Michel went for the engineering-perfect approach, figuring you could "program" the dirt if you want it. Yeah, and we can fix it in the mix. (Aside: Rev 1 & 2 Prophet 5s are also known to be dirtier; the Rev 3 was engineered too well...) I have a 2-voice with the old SEM modules and for as simplistic as it is, it never lets me down. - CM From: wbf@aluxpo.att.com Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 14:53:46 EDT Original-From: aluxpo!wbf (William Fox) Subject: Re: question for matrix 6 owners (not 6r) Taylor.808 asked if the Matrix 6 has local on/off. Sorry, I can't answer your question. But My only keyboard with velocity is a first generation Ensoniq Mirage sampler . No local off. I just turn down the volume, if I've even bothered to plug it into the mixer in the first place! (I need a controller because [1] the Mirage's action is mush and [2] it quantizes its velocity values to about six levels or so! Talk about beating on animal skin wood drums with a club; argh, argh, argh!) Bill Fox <01GX040NUPM6M265FB@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU>; Wed, 14 Apr 1993 13:21:45 EST Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 13:21:43 -0500 (EST) From: an excursion through technospace Subject: question for matrix 6 owners (not 6r) does the matrix 6 have local on/off ??? i'm in the market for a controller.. if there's no local control.. it's useless as a controller. thanks. peace >>taylor.808 s q u a r e w a v e f e t i s h t e a m Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 09:59:14 -0500 (EST) From: Jeffrey Gosztyla Subject: Matrix-12/Xpander weirdness I've had this odd problem with the matrix-12 and midi. It seems if you play a repetitive bass-line, notes will get stuck. For example, say I just have a 16th note bass line that is just one note repeated 16 times. The 12th time it is played, the note sticks. I thought that maybe the 12th voice had problems, so I switched it off. Now the 11th note will get stuck, even if I go all the way down to just two voices, the 2nd one will stick. I have the single setup so that it is in rotate mode, and the patches I've tried are all pretty simple. Any ideas? Obviously, I could stop making repetitive bass lines, but it seems to happen ocassionally with things that aren't quite as repetitive. It doesn't seem to happen when I play things on the keyboard itself. --- Jeffrey Gosztyla Da Vinci Systems (919) 881-4349 "My brain is bigger than yours" - MBM <01GVWSZDDW1S8WXMYS@iscsvax.uni.edu>; Wed, 17 Mar 1993 10:04:34 CST Date: 17 Mar 1993 10:04:33 -0600 (CST) From: GINGERIC9178@iscsvax.uni.edu Subject: PC based MATRIX-1000 editor for free hELLO, Well after a few weeks of laborious search (yeah right) I finally found a freeware editor for the MATRIX-1000 for the IBM PC and the MPU-401, and it looks like a pretty decent one at that. It is called V_LIB and is put out by a Mr. Mark Vitek of Chicago. Mr. Vitek even was nice enough to let me download fom his computer the newest version of it. Anyway it does everything the one advertised in the back of Keyboard recently for $80 does (I got a demo of that) so if you want a copy I will gladly send it out to you. No graphical disaplys, but hey ITS FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Robert Williams MANNA-MACHINE (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0nj1TP-000MToC; Wed, 14 Apr 93 09:01 MET DST id ; Wed, 14 Apr 93 08:44 MET DST From: ricard@axis.se (Ricard Wolf) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 08:44:30 MET DST Subject: Re: What's a module? and the Oberheim Xpander Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Analogue Synth Mailing List) > I confess that I occasionally miss the way my rig looked a few years ago, > with the Xpander, Pro-One, MC-202, Taurus II, Bit One, Polaris, and EH > MiniSynth all going at once.... but MAN did my studio get hot in a hurry. I used to use (and still have) an electronic organ with TUBES. Even used to gig with the thing. 40-or-so ECC83's (or 12AX7 or whatever to our American friends) glowing and keeping my fingers warm... Still have it, but have gone over to more common polysynths... Actually, this organ was the first polyphonic instrument I owned. A friend of mine and I bought it for $65 several years ago - a huge investment at the time; we split it two ways... Anyway, it keept my bedroom/home studio _very_ warm... /Ricard -- Ricard Wolf / | \ / | /- email: ricard@axis.se Axis Communications AB /__| \/ | \__ uucp: axisab.se!ricard S - 223 70 LUND / | /\ | \ Tel: +46 46 19 18 63 SWEDEN / | / \ | \__/ Fax: +46 46 13 61 30 -- "You better watch out, you better beware, Albert said that E=mc square" -- From: brians@unislc.slc.unisys.com (Brian Sassone) Subject: Oberheim Xpander Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 0:29:53 MDT I recently saw one of these for the first time at a used music store so I grabbed a set of head phones and about two hours later came back to reality :) So anyway, this unit had two modules with a mixer to the far right. The top of the unit had a slot that looked like it was cut there (i.e., hacked) for some type of vertical expansion. Is this something that was an option, or did somebody do a mod to this thing at one time? It also had an 8 CV sequencer (is that the right terminology?). Was this standard on the Xpander? Were there other models? They wanted $1000 which I thought was kinda steep, then again, I'm new to the analog world. -brian