From andrea@sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl Wed Apr 7 05:18:20 1993 Received: from sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA17982; Wed, 7 Apr 93 05:18:16 -0400 Message-Id: <9304070918.AA17982@quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Received: by sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl (16.7/16.2) id AA23382; Wed, 7 Apr 93 11:25:25 +0100 From: Andrea TONI Subject: -- K5 -- To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 7 Apr 93 11:25:24 MET Organization: ESA-ESTEC (European Space Research and Technology Center) Keplerlaan 1 2200 AG Noordwijk (EUROPA) Phone: Int +31 1719 83606 Fax: Int +31 1719 84697 Machine: HP-UX sihp03 A.B8.05 A 9000/730 941406112 Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.33] Status: OR Hi, Here it is a long list summary of infos about the K5 that I have saved in the past years .. enjoy .. >From my side I can say that I like my K5 very much but as every machine it has some likes and dislikes .. - It has a nice portamento - The outputs are noisy (hissing) .. the DBX suggest by Chris should help a lot .. pity you will need two of them if you want to take advantage of the 4 outs. - I would have like very much another LFO - It has a very nice 11 band graphic equalizer - The envelopes are not graphics and it is a pain to get the curve you are thinking about. - You will need a nice computer editor to make some nice programming yourself (.. that indeed is not easy .. 255 parameters or more ..) - The filter is not bad if you think it was a digital filter from 1987 .. but still is far away from the VCFs or some modern digital one (JD800 !) - There are some softwares that will convert an S900 sample in a patch for the K5 .. but the sound will be very static since the conversion barely makes an FFT and creates only the harmonics without envs setting - It sounds OK but forget about a good bass sound ... and if you want to add some movement to its static nature you will have to tweak plenty of parameters .. Ciao, ------------------------------------------------ENV---ENV---ENV---------------- Andrea TONI (andrea@sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl) | | | Planetary and Space VCO-->VCF-->VCA--> DUCATI 900SS Science Division (SI) | | | ------------------------------------------------LFO---LFO---LFO---------------- =========================================================================== I am trying to keep an update list of K5 owners and I hope you can answer back to me and/or update this file Do you still have your K5 ??? # List of possible K5 owner or ex-owner !!! please add and resend ! # ressler@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu # mbl@media-lab.media.mit.edu (Marc LoCascio) # JROSSI@EAGLE.AAMRL.WPAFB.AF.MIL (John Rossi) # jgj@ssd.csd.harris.com # dstowell@ddsw1.MCS.COM ( Maybe ?? ) # dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliot) # sharley@isis.cs.du.edu # kws@franklin.ee.umr.edu (Kevin Schneider) # bgood@sundagger.lerc.nasa.gov # cdodson@beast.cac.stratus.com # jws7793@ritvax.isc.rit.edu # Jack.Hurwitz@f440.n109.z1.FidoNet.Org (Jack Hurwitz) # WSCOTT@WOOSTER.BITNET (Bill Scott) # beltran@ns.network.com (Tony R. Beltran) # selick@csa.bu.edu (Steven Selick) # peters@mips2.ma30.bull.com (Dan Peters) # david@scic.intel.com (David Nedwek) # jkg@prism.gatech.EDU (Jim Greenlee) # drb@cs.brown.edu (Dan Bornstein) # rainer@spot.Colorado.edu (Rainer Malzbender) # dpm@cray.com (Donald P. Maghrak) # michael@NSMA.AriZonA.EdU (Michael S. Williams) # smill@polari.online.com (Steven M. Miller) # alice@media.mit.edu (Alice Lei) # bob@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bob Weigel) # bobhays@SPSS.COM (Bob Hays) # lpeterson@dazixco.ingr.com (Larry Peterson) # tjt@blink.att.com (Tim Thompson) # michaela@ramrod.lmt.mn.org (Michael Armstrong) # SRJ102@PSUVM.PSU.EDU (Scott Jung) # soh@gdstech.grumman.com (Scott O'Hare) # dececco@nsl.fr (Maurizio Dececco) # larry@midi.dazixco.ingr.com (Larry Peterson) # davem@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (David Monro) # jdjohns@cbda8.apgea.army.mil (James D. Johns) # rost@tecrus.enet.dec.com (Brian Rost) # mdl@cs.duke.edu sold (Michael D. Landis) # (Chris Meyer) # andrea@sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl (Andrea Toni) .. me !! Path: estsi1!esatst!hp4nl!mcsun!uunet!wuarchive!mit-eddie!media-lab!mbl From: mbl@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Marc LoCascio) Newsgroups: rec.music.synth Subject: Kawai K5m questions Message-ID: <5416@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU> Date: 4 Mar 91 03:27:42 GMT Organization: MIT Media Lab, Cambridge, MA Lines: 11 i know that someone else here recently asked the same question, but since i haven't seen a posted reply.... what can you tell me about the Kawai K5m synth? i recall people saying that it was a quite powerful additive machine and was a good deal on close-out, but i'd like some specifics and user opinions. i'm asking this because i saw one for sale at a local music store marked down to $299 (new) and was wondering if this is a deal i shouldn't pass up. Marc LoCascio (mbl@media-lab.media.mit.edu) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: estsi1!esatst!hp4nl!mcsun!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!EAGLE.AAMRL.WPAFB.AF.MIL!JROSSI From: JROSSI@EAGLE.AAMRL.WPAFB.AF.MIL Newsgroups: rec.music.synth Subject: Paragon Sound K5 patches.. Message-ID: <9103041420.AA26676@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 4 Mar 91 13:19:00 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 6 I am posting for a friend as well as myself. Does anybody know what hapaned to Paragon Sound and their K5 patch library. My friend is interested in acquiring it. Anybody got it? John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From <@yc1.yc.estec.nl,@hp4nl.UUCP,@hp4nl.nluug.nl:JROSSI@EAGLE.AAMRL.WPAFB.AF.MIL> Wed Mar 6 21:38 MET 1991 Received: from yc1.yc.estec.nl by .si.estec.nl ; Wed, 6 Mar 91 21:38:53 -0100 Return-Path: <@yc1.yc.estec.nl,@hp4nl.UUCP,@hp4nl.nluug.nl:JROSSI@EAGLE.AAMRL.WPAFB.AF.MIL> Received: by yc1.yc.estec.nl (5.61++/IDA-1.2.8) id AA16625; Wed, 6 Mar 91 21:39:24 +0100 Received: from hp4nl with uucp; Wed, 6 Mar 91 21:10:47 Received: from [129.48.132.1] by hp4nl.nluug.nl with SMTP id AA20877 (5.58.1.14/2.14); Wed, 6 Mar 91 21:10:47 MET Message-Id: <9103062010.AA20877@hp4nl.nluug.nl> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 15:09 EDT From: JROSSI@EAGLE.AAMRL.WPAFB.AF.MIL Subject: Kawai K5 To: andrea X-Vms-To: IN%"andrea@si.estec.NL" Status: RO Yes I have one. There is a program for IBM-type MIDI setups which will convert Digidesign and Turtle Beach format sample files to K5 snapshots. It is marketed by a company called Syntonics (the program is called 'Overtone'). Syntonics are somewhere in Virginia, USA {. They used to advertize in the classified section of Keybunk and Electronic Musician. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Path: estec!esoc!psuvm!ysub!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!gatech!udel!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu! uakari.primate.wisc.edu!dali.cs.montana.edu!milton!uw-beaver!ubc-cs!alberta!herald.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!five From: five@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (skinny puppy) Newsgroups: rec.music.synth Subject: Re: Kawai K5m questions Message-ID: Date: 6 Mar 91 14:16:02 GMT References: <5416@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU> Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB Lines: 63 mbl@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Marc LoCascio) writes: > > i know that someone else here recently asked the same question, but since > i haven't seen a posted reply.... > > what can you tell me about the Kawai K5m synth? i recall people saying > that it was a quite powerful additive machine and was a good deal on > close-out, but i'd like some specifics and user opinions. i'm asking > this because i saw one for sale at a local music store marked down to > $299 (new) and was wondering if this is a deal i shouldn't pass up. > > Marc LoCascio (mbl@media-lab.media.mit.edu) Well, here we go: The K5/K5m being an Additive Synthesis Synthesizer, allows you to produce a sound using either 64 or 128 Harmonics. This depends on the # of Oscillators that you wish to use in your sound. 64 Harmonics (dual oscillator mode) offers more than enough range of possibilities. For the synth section of the machin, you are given: (2) Oscillators, with 9 octave range; Multiple Rate/Level Envelope generator with Points 3 and 4 Loopable between each other; (2) Digital Harmonics Generators. These produce the actual waveform. You are shown a screen with 64 harmonics, at their individual volumes. Other onscreen information shows you whether, each of the Harmonics in modulated (via the LFO) or not, and which of the 4 Envelopes that each harmonic uses for controlling it's volume through time. The editing tools built into this machine for editing the harmonics, are just wonderful. You can define entire ranges, or a single harmonic, for adjustment. Or you can define the odd or even, or octave, or fifth, harmonics, all within a range (1 - 63) and adjust them on a positive or negative slope, or a multitude of other options. (2) Digital Low Pass Filters. These are your standard filters with some interesting additions, and their own dedicated Envelope generators. (2) Digital Amplifiers, each with their own dedicated Envelope generators. (1) 11 Band graphic Equalizer. And (2) Keyboard Scaling curves, that are definable. It will store 48 Patches internally and another 48 out to a card, along with 48 (15 Part) Multi's, and 48 to a card. The machine is 16 Voice multi-timbral (TRUE 16 voice multi-timbral. It's not dependant on the number of osc.'s used, such as in the K1 or many Roland instruments). The sounds that it is capable of producing, are very dependent on their programming. Some sounds are incredible fat sounding for a digital instrument, and some are incredibly thin sounding. Overall, I find the machine an absolute JOY to work with (I am a hardcore sound programmer), and am extremely pleased with the sound that it is capable of. At $299 US, I wish I lived in the town that you do, because that machine wouldn't be there for another day, if I saw it at that price. I would GLADLY own a second K5m. Another feature that I forgot, if you have access to an Atari ST and an Akai S900, there is software available to convert S900 samples into sounds useable by the K5. Of course there are some limitations, but some sounds transfer quite well. Hope this helps! Five Five%sys6626.bison.mb.ca@niven.cc.umanitoba.ca ========================================================================= Path: estec!esoc!psuvm!ysub!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!gatech!udel!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu! uakari.primate.wisc.edu!dali.cs.montana.edu!milton!uw-beaver!ubc-cs!alberta!herald.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!five From: five@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (skinny puppy) Newsgroups: rec.music.synth Subject: Harmonics Message-ID: <2ccey3w163w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> Date: 6 Mar 91 14:44:36 GMT Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB Lines: 12 Does ANYONE have a any lists of Harmonics in Instruments (Sounds), such as the harmonics making up the waveform of a Trumpet? Etc. I am looking for Harmonic lists for ANYTHING. I have an Additive Synthesizer Kawai K5m) and much prefer programming my own sounds. I found some harmonics lists last night (Sawtooth, Square/Pulse, Triangle, (Violin; Oboe; Human AHH and Human OOO -->)Formants, and clarinette. I would be willing to trade these for others, or Harmonic lists found to be very interesting. Five Five%sys6626.bison.mb.ca@niven.cc.umanitoba.ca ========================================================================= Path: estec!esoc!psuvm!ysub!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!gatech!udel!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!smsc.sony.com!dce From: dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) Newsgroups: rec.music.synth Subject: Re: Kawai K5m questions Message-ID: <1991Mar10.042918.563@smsc.sony.com> Date: 10 Mar 91 04:29:18 GMT References: Organization: Sony Microsystems Corp, San Jose, CA Lines: 23 In article rh2y+@andrew.cmu.edu (Russell E. Hoffman, II) writes: >Wow! from your description, sounds to me like you could get some really >AWESOME sounds out of a K5m... you can seriously have >*64* separately controlled harmonics, each controlled by its _OWN_ >individual envelope generator, with each generator having its OWN parameters >controlling it? e-GADS! plus, you say you can pick from four different >envelopes -or- an LFO? GEEZ! i've never heard of a synth that lets you >have that much control before. Although, sounds like you could spend >_hours_ tweaking out a particular sound... Earth to Russell! Earth to Russell! Sorry, but there are 8 envelopes total (4 per sound generator), not one envelope generator per harmonic, so each harmonic is assigned to one of the EGs. Also, it only has harmonics, not partials in general. Together, these make things like percussive or ultra-complex sounds impossible. The K5 is an extremely versatile machine, but it still has its limits. A sample converted to K5 parameters doesn't sound like the original sample, but it can surely be used to great effect. In other words, a K5 isn't an M1 or a WaveStation, but those of us who own K5s don't mind that one bit! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: estsi1!esatst!hp4nl!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!ubc-cs!alberta!herald.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!five From: five@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (skinny puppy) Newsgroups: rec.music.synth Subject: Re: Kawai K5m questions Message-ID: <1RmRy2w163w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> Date: 13 Mar 91 18:58:23 GMT References: <1991Mar10.042918.563@smsc.sony.com> Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB Lines: 24 dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) writes: > Sorry, but there are 8 envelopes total (4 per sound generator), not one > envelope generator per harmonic, so each harmonic is assigned to one of > the EGs. Also, it only has harmonics, not partials in general. > Together, these make things like percussive or ultra-complex sounds > impossible. > Sorry sir. This may not matter all that much to the conversation, but just to set the record straight, the K5/K5m has 14 Envelopes in total. The 'Oscillators' have 4 each, only. But add to this, the fact that each of the groupings of harmonics that are controlled by the 4 Envelopes also have their own dedicated Sine wave envelope (only 1 parameter of which can be edited. Speed.) which makes a few more possibilities for creating complex sounds. Still. It isn't as great as this other lad was led to believe, but a machine that had a dedicated envelope for each harmonic would cost an arm and a leg. (And be GREAT FUN to porgram! (No sarcasm meant. I LOVE my K5m!)) Five Please reply to: Five%sys6626.bison.mb.ca@niven.cc.umanitoba.ca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From <@yc1.yc.estec.nl,@hp4nl.UUCP,@hp4nl.nluug.nl:dce@krusty.smsc.Sony.COM> Wed Jul 24 00:17 MET 1991 Received: from yc1.yc.estec.nl by .si.estec.nl ; Wed, 24 Jul 91 00:17:00 -0100 Return-Path: <@yc1.yc.estec.nl,@hp4nl.UUCP,@hp4nl.nluug.nl:dce@krusty.smsc.Sony.COM> Received: by yc1.yc.estec.nl (5.61++/IDA-1.2.8) id AA00475; Wed, 24 Jul 91 00:18:03 +0200 Received: from hp4nl with uucp; Tue, 23 Jul 91 23:09:53 Received: from Sony.COM ([192.65.137.2]) by hp4nl.nluug.nl with SMTP id AA03820 (1.15/2.14); Tue, 23 Jul 91 23:09:53 MET Received: by Sony.COM (5.65+/1.34) id AA21269; Tue, 23 Jul 91 13:52:37 -0700 From: dce@krusty.smsc.Sony.COM Received: from krusty.smsc.Sony.COM by sonyusa.Sony.COM (4.0/SMI-4.0) id AA04152; Tue, 23 Jul 91 13:52:26 PDT Message-Id: <9107232052.AA04152@sonyusa.Sony.COM> Received: from krusty.smsc.sony.com by krusty with SMTP (SONY RISC V.4 smtpd); Tue, 23 Jul 91 13:52:17 PDT To: andrea Subject: Re: ROM upgrade for K5 In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 23 Jul 91 10:08:14 -0100. <9107230809.AA19229@yc1.yc.estec.nl> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 91 13:52:15 -0700 Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1482 Status: R >I saw in rec.music.synth that you have change ROM in the K5 . >Since I am an happy owner of th eK5 I would like to know : > . What is the last version of ROM I'm running 1.2. > . What are the bugs fixed / or advantage added Well, 1.1 supposedly fixed some clicking in some cases. It also changed the machine so that it comes up in multi mode, but it didn't set up the outputs to match, so you had to switch to single mode and then back to multi mode. 1.2 fixed the output mode botch. I don't know what else changed. Rumor has it that the next update will turn on system exclusive send and receive capability by default so that we don't have to do it manually. > . And How do you know when a new ROM version is out It's not easy. I call Kawai every year or so just to see if there's a new ROM, and so do other people on Usenet, so eventually the word gets around. >I tought that Kawai was not supporting any more The K5 The ROM upgrades are very minor. It's not quite the same as real support. I kind of wish they would make the code available so that those of us who have the capability to create our own customized ROMs could do so. It's funny. I think that Kawai makes great products, but they have lousy customer relations except on the K1 and K4, yet I own a K5, a K3m, an XD5, and used to own an R50. If they were a better company, they could outshine all the others. ...David Elliott ...dce@smsc.sony.com | ...!{uunet,mips}!sonyusa!dce ...(408)944-4073 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From heja@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Sat Nov 19 11:05:32 1994 Date: Sat, 19 Nov 1994 11:39:34 +0100 From: Herbert Janssen To: electronica+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: RE: Casio & K5 Hi, Kent Williams -- kent@gilligan.cadsi.com wrote about the K5: > So do you an E.G. for each partial? How do you build up a patch? The architecture of the K5 is like this: 16 voices, each has two DHG (Digital Harmonics Generators), each of which has 63 partials. The 2 DHGs can be used independently or be stacked to get up to the 126th partial. For each DHG there are two 4+2 level/rate programmable envelopes, so you get 8 Envs at first glance plus per DHG a realtime mod path for a choosable subset of harmonics. There are however other modulation capabilities which carry different terms but are really only another perspective of the same partial level modulation thing: a digital filter per DHG gives you another two 4+2 level/rate envelopes, plus real time mod'able slope (resonant peak width) and non modable resonance intensity. A DCA per DHG gives you another 4+2 env for global level control and a DFT is really a 11 band EQ, not mod'able. Additionally there are a pitch env per DHG (4+3, loopable) and a global LFO. So in terms of non-traditional access you have the 8 Envs and a realtime modulation path of one arbitrary subset of partials, but you also have a traditional looking part (VCF-VCA-EQ if you like) of the user interface. ciao Herbert