Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:19:02 -0700 From: brana To: analogue@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [AH] RE JoMoX SunSyn Hi DinedHavoC. The SunSyn is not out yet. It should be released some time around January. JoMoX gear is being distributed by Johnny Van Nest in the U.S. http://home.earthlink.net/~johnnyvn/ and by myself in Canada http://www.nscience.com . As for the RCOs, I'll try and explain them as best as I can. It's hard to talk about something that isn't out yet! The SunSyn is in many ways a modular system. What JoMoX did was re-design the modular concept to make it portable and much easier for the musician to 'save' his/her creations. In a typical modular system, you have X number of CV ins and outs that can be linked and cross linked via patch cords. This gives you an unlimited number of routing options as essentially any CV out can affect any CV in, regardless of the type of signal being routed. This allows for a huge amount of sound possibilities as the patching possibilities are themselves almost unlimited. Now with modulars, you're usually dealing with a huge beast of a machine and have no way to 'save' your patch routings, so you would have to whip out the old textbook and start drawing diagrams or just remember. Now when JoMoX set out to build their tabletop analog polyphonic synth, they wanted the musician to be able to have unlimited sound possibilities, but realized it is impossible to build a synth where there were an endless number of routings within the circuitry to allow for every possible connection. Remember that we are talking about analog gear. You can't just add routings via nifty code. Everything exists physically and each modulation path would need its own VCA. Also, part of their thinking was that even in a huge modular system with X number of sound possibilities, you would never use all of modulation paths at the same time anyways. In light of all this, they created what they call routing element circuits. There are 4 routing elements per voice (8 voices total). Each voice on the SunSyn is made up of 2 analog VCOs and 2 digital RCOs. Think of each routing element as a cable in a modular system that has two inputs and one output, with a modifier (intensity adjuster) between the 2 sources and destination. Input 1 has eight choices, including various oscillators, envelopes, noise generators and LFOs. Input 2 has eight choices including external audio/CV and much of the same type of stuff as Input 1. The modifier has 8 choices including a midi controller (control change, velocity,aftertouch). And the destination has 8 choices as well. This gives you 4096 different possible modulation scenarios per voice and remember that there are 8 voices. We are talking about some serious synthesis here. To get a better understanding of the routing elements, just check out my web site at http://www.nscience.com/sunsyn.htm . There is a graphic on there that gives you a visual of how the routing element works. As for the RCOs, this is another area where JoMoX decided to turn things up a notch. In a typical analog system, you have analog VCOs and usually that's it. I'm not sure if any synth manufacturer has ever built a synth with both analog and digital VCOs within the same unit. Regardless, instead of being limited to only analog synthesis, JoMoX have added digital oscillators to the mix as well. The true innovation being that the RCOs (ramp controlled oscillators) are driven by the analog VCOs. This will be a synth first. For the first time, digital waveforms will be playable with the timbre of analog VCOs. The RCO follows the analog VCO with all of its fine tunings and frequency changes. This results in a completely new expression for waveforms that was previously not possible in the all analog or all digital worlds. In addition, the RCOs follow the analog VCOs modulation, OSC sync and restart and can have their own relative pitch. With 4 oscillators per voice, 4 routing elements per voice, 8 voices (32 total oscillators), this will be a very powerful unit. Like this wasn't enough, there is something more that should be said about the RCOs. Since these oscillators are digital, you would have to ask yourself what waveforms are possible as choices for the RCOs. Well, the unit will ship with 256 different waveforms that you will be able to choose from. This will be further expanded through the PCMCIA slot as additional cards will be available through JoMoX with even more waveforms. In addition, I'm told that the SunSyn is pretty much open ended in this department. New waveforms can be created by users and uploaded into the unit somehow (not sure on how this is done yet), in addition to being able to load short samples! Hope this answers some of your questions DinedHavoC. Brana New Science Music http://www.nscience.com -----Original Message----- From: DinedHavoC@aol.com To: analogue@hyperreal.org Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 12:45 PM Subject: [AH] JoMoX Sunsyn >does anyone own one of these they seem EXTREMELY cool!! also is there >somewhere i can get one here in the states? and for how much? >if i am understanding correctly its basically like a modular synth without >cables? and also could someone explain the RCOs to me... >thanx ahead of time.... >~DinedHavoC~ > Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:58:28 -0700 From: brana To: analogue heaven Subject: Re: [AH] RE JoMoX SunSyn >in other words, what pretty much every synth manufacturer has done since >the days of modulars. most obviously, the oberheim xpander, matrix-12, and >matrix-6, but even the new alesis gear has mod routings. hell even my akai >sampler does. if you want to see recent examples of someone taking the >"modular in a box" idea seriously, check out the "cords" in the high end >emu samplers (which includes some interesting CV processors) or the >routing and modulation possibilities in the alesis quadraverb 2. True enough. I wasn't trying to say that they invented the idea of modulation routings or that that feauture was unique to the synth. Just that their approach is unique in my opinion. When you look at the fact that each routing element contains 2 sources to modulate (including the analog oscillators, the digital oscillators, LFOs, external cv, external audio, envelopes and noise generator) a modifier for intensity (which includes a controller of your choice, an oscillator of your choice, an envelope of your choice and and LFO of your choice) and a destination (which includes frequency modulation of any of the analog oscillators, pulse width modulation of any of the analog oscillators, cutoff frequency of the filter, resonance of the filter, intensity of the filter, and vca amount). Even modulations of modulations are possible. Now remember that there are four of these routing elements per voice and eight voices in the system. I'm not sure that any of you examples stack up to this in terms of potential. Another thing to remember is that all of this is happening in the analog domain for the sunsyn, so you get the full dynamics of the modulations instead of being limited by fixed point calculation errors like dsp machines are prone to. I own a Q2 and the modulation on it is very weak. Extremely slow when changing parameters via midi and you defintely get stepping while changing parameters in real-time. Not a good example of a well implemented modulation system. :) >im not running down the SunSyn -- it looks like it has some interesting >features -- but there's no reason to sound like Jomox invented the idea of >mod routings or "modular in a box" (except for sales hype or ignorance of >history). > > >> synth first. For the first time, digital waveforms will be playable with >> the timbre of analog VCOs. The RCO follows the analog VCO with all of its > >that sounds interesting.. what does it mean? do you mean that the digital >oscillators follow any CV applied to the analogues as well? or is there >something stranger and more interesting going on here? :) Well, eternal CV can be used to play the digital oscillators, but not in a direct manner. It's not that the CV is being 'read' and directly applied to the RCOs. More like the CV affects the VCOs which in turn affect the RCOs. Basically anything the analog oscillators do in terms of pitch and frequency modulation, start and stop, will directly control the digital oscillators. The digital oscillators cannot 'play' on their own (even though you could turn the volume down on the analog oscillators and hear only the digital ones and vice versa). In a way, they take their cue from the analog oscillators. Another thing to note is that yes the synth can be played via CV, but it does has MIDI which would be more useful since there are 8 voices and only I believe 2 CV inputs. The reason you haven't seen any virtual analog synths that can accurately reproduce the real deal is because analog oscillators are rather chaotic and trying to squeeze that into an equation is impossible (at least for now). All the little imperfections and nuances we all love about analog and all the warmth and range of dynamics will be used to drive the oscillation of complex digital waveforms in the SunSyn. This is an innovation as far as I know and is the more interesting thing that is going on here! And I won't even get into the filters...... Brana New Science Music http://www.nscience.com Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:36:12 -0400 From: "[.v/jek.]" To: brana , analogue heaven Subject: Re: [AH] RE JoMoX SunSyn > And I won't even get into the filters...... I will, don't worry.... (i got off my lazy ass and played a hunch that more info would be lurking on your page ...=) [To quote from Brana's page: ] The filter section contains a fully configurable 4 pole analog filter (per each voice!). One can adjust the highpass/lowpass characteristic individually for each filter pole and the coefficients (meaning a basic cutoff frequency for each pole individually), too. -*klip*- there's even more: You can store 2 Scenes for each filter setup that include ALL filter parameters and it is then possible to MORPH (in the analog domain, of course) between these two... [--end quote--] How are these parameter changes implemented from the front panel? I'm particularly interested in how quickly the slope and "morphing" changes can be accomplished when in 8 voice mode... I'd guess, without the aid of a pc-1600 slider box, one at a time... right? What kinda button combination/ menu screens would one need to step through... In addition to that, how fast is the ENV attack on the sunsyn? tata, o0o[qiB.]o0o > > >Brana >New Science Music >http://www.nscience.com > > >