From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Fri Apr 9 23:48:17 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA05171; Fri, 9 Apr 93 23:48:01 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from relay2.UU.NET by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA05166; Fri, 9 Apr 93 23:48:00 -0400 Received: from spool.uu.net (via LOCALHOST.UU.NET) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA02813; Fri, 9 Apr 93 23:48:07 -0400 Received: from korgrd.UUCP by spool.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL (queueing-rmail) id 234631.18333; Fri, 9 Apr 1993 23:46:31 EDT Received: from korgsmtp by korgrd.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15351; Fri, 9 Apr 93 20:25:25 PDT Message-Id: <9304100325.AA15351@korgrd.com> Date: 9 Apr 1993 20:26:29 -0800 From: "Dan" Subject: Jupiter 6, 8, and MKS-80 To: "Analog Heaven" Status: OR RE:Jupiter 6, 8, and MKS-80 8:13 PM 4/9/93 > >The JP-8 is a much fatter synth than the JP-6, but MIDI'd ones are quite > >costly. > > I have the rack mount equivalent of the JP-8, the MKS80, with the MPG-80 > 4 space rack-mount editor. It is _fantastic_. I wouldn't trade it for > anything (in fact, I'm considering buying a second one). I think the only > difference between the MKS80 and the JP-8 is the on-board appregiator. I've > never seen a JP-8 though, so I could be completely full o' crap on this. > > Bryan C. Additionally, Metlay wrote: > This implies that the JP-6 is a superset of the Juno-106 and Juno-60 with > an extra DCO and crossmodulation routings. Interesting! BTW, I think the > voices are velocity sensitive via MIDI, tho the keyboard is not. Can you > modulate pulse width from the Envelope? Are there two Envs available? Ummm...the Juno series are quite different than the Jupiter series, with the most basic difference being that the 6, 60, and 106 had a single oscillator and a single envelope (with a built-in chorus serving to fatten up the sound), while the Jupiters had two of each. The Jupiters also featured enhanced modulation routings, dual-oscillator features such as cross-modulation and sync (the latter are both dual oscillator features), and analog VCOs (as opposed to the DCOs of the 60 and 106 - anyone know if the 6 had DCOs?). This is not meant to imply that the Junos are not cool in and of themselves, of course - they're just very different beasts. I have a Jupiter-6; as there has been a lot of discussion about the Jupiters recently, I thought I might take a glance at the brochures for the three instruments (and the MKS-80 editor in Unisyn) and summarize the differences between them; there seem to be many twiddly variations (many more than I expected), and a few more significant ones. A thumbnail summary (details follow below): JP-8: 8 voices, random arpeggiator, lowpass filter, more inputs/outputs JP-6: 6 voices, more mod routings, multimode filter, basic MIDI MKS-80: 8 voices, even more mod routings, lowpass filter, decent MIDI Occasionally, BTW, I refer to MKS-80 "sliders," which is kind of a misnomer; the MKS-80 is a rack-mount module with only two sliders - for volume and dynamic sensitivity - and data entry is done with buttons. The MPG-80 programmer, however (this is from the brochure - was this shortened to PG-80 on production models, as would match Roland's other programmers?), provided gobs of sliders, and it's a short way of saying "continuous control rather than switch." And now, the details: LFO 1: This appears to be the same on all three, with rate, delay, and four possible waveforms: sine, saw, square, and random (s/h). The JP-8 says sine and the JP-6 says triangle, but these two waveforms tend to sound identical in practice. Oscillators: Number of Voices: MKS-80 and JP-8 both have 8 voices; the JP-6 has 6. All have 2 oscillators per voice (VCO-1 & VCO-2), each with 4 possible wave- forms; VCO-1 allows triangle, sawtooth, pulse, and square, and VCO-2 substitutes noise for square. On the JP-8 and MKS-80, you can only choose one waveform per oscillator; on the JP-6, you can select any or all at once. VCO mod: all allow modulation from LFO and ENV-1 simultaneously, with modulation routed to VCO-1, VCO-2, or both; the MKS-80 adds the ability to select, for each VCO, between positive and inverse modulation (presumably affecting input from both LFO and ENV-1). Pulse Width Modulation: JP-8 has a single amount slider, and then a switch to select between LFO, ENV-1, or manual PWM; the MKS-80 offers two separate sliders, with one for the default width and one for modulation amount with a switch to choose between ENV, LFO, or keyboard modulation, and also lets you set the polarity of the modulation. The JP-6 is the same as the MKS-80, except that only ENV-1 and LFO can modulate - no keyboard tracking. Cross Mod: The JP-8 has a single slider to control the amount of cross- modulation of VCO-1 by VCO-2. The JP-6 adds ENV-1 control for this parameter (with a slider for modulation amount), in addition to the slider for base amount of cross-mod (labeled, as elsewhere in the series, "Manual"). The MKS-80 ups the ante further by allowing either positive or inverse ENV modulation. Envelope-modulated cross modulation can create some seriously sqwonky sounds, and so this is one of the areas where the JP-8 loses out over its offspring. Oscillator Sync: Bi-directional on MKS-80 and JP-6 (VCO-1 to VCO-2 or vice- versa); only VCO-1 to VCO-2 for JP-8. Oscillator Tuning: The JP-8 has a normal tuning range of 16'-2', with VCO-2 having an additional switch to put it into "Low Frequency" range. The JP-6 & MKS-80 have a standard range of 32'-2' (read: beefier bass), with VCO-2 having additional high and low ranges on the main knob (no special mode). Lastly (for oscillators), the MKS-80 has an extra slider for Key Follow, with a selector switch for VCO-1, VCO-2, or OFF. Mixer: Same for all; mixes between VCO-1 and VCO-2. Filter: This is an area of great variation. All have a main, resonant modulatable filter (for specifics, see below); the JP-8 and MKS-80 add a second non-modulatable, non-resonant high-pass filter (not as bad a blow to the JP-6 as you might think - see below). The filter has three modulation routings: envelope (either ENV1 or 2), Lfo, and keyboard tracking. All routings have a slider for amount, as opposed to a simple on/off switch. The MKS-80 allows you to reverse the polarity of the envelope; the JP-8 and JP-6 allow you to reverse the polarity of ENV-1 only, and at the source, which is not as flexible (i.e., you can't haveboth positive and negative versions of the envelopes used at the same time). The JP-8's main filter offers lowpass filtering, with a selection of either 12 dB/Octave (2-pole) or 24 dB/Octave (4-pole). The JP-6 has a *multimode* filter, with either 4-pole lowpass, 4-pole highpass, or 2-pole bandpass; this filter is modulatable and resonant, and those of you who haven't heard a resonant high-pass filter sweep have not yet truly lived (ooops, sorry for the editorializing there). The MKS-80 is the simplest, with a fixed HPF similar to the JP-8, and a single-mode lowpass filter (presumably 2-pole, but I'm not sure). Depending on what you want to do, these differences can be very meaningful; some of the most interesting and orgasmic sounds on the JP-6 come from using the resonant high-pass filter, a very, very rare feature. On the other hand, there are times when it can be handy to have a fixed HPF in addition to a modulatable low-pass filter; I use this sometimes on my JX-8P. If you want everything, I guess, just buy them all :-). VCA: All have ENV-2 routed to amplitude, with a slider for amount of modulation. The JP-6 and MKS-80 have a slider for amount of LFO modulation; the JP-8 has a 4-position switch. Additionally, the MKS-80 has a separate, overall level control. ENV-1 and ENV-2: Both of these are ADSR envelopes on all three Jupiters. The JP-8 provides an on/off switch for key follow (keyboard tracking) for each envelope. The JP-6 and MKS-80 add a continuous slider for amount of key follow (as opposed to on/off). The JP-8 and JP-6 both have switches to select normal or negative polarity for ENV1 only; the MKS-80 has no global controlof ENV-1 polarity, instead offering greater flexibility through individual polarity choices for most destinations (no inverse polarity possible to VCO modulation, though). The MKS-80 allows velocity to control the time and level of the envelopes; there are sliders for both time and level modulation amounts, which apply to both ENV-1 and ENV-2; each of the envelopes has a separate dynamics on/off switch. Patch Storage: The JP-8 has 64 patches and 8 "patch presets." Patch presets can store split and "dual" (layered) sounds, along with the settings for the arpeggiator, voice assign, etc. (see below). The JP-6 cut back to 48 patches, but has 32 patch presets (these are the objects selected by MIDI program changes on the JP-6). The MKS-80 features 64 patches and 64 patch presets in internal RAM, with an additional 128 on an optional RAM cartridge. Patch Preset Architecture: Split/Layer Modes: The JP-8 has three modes: dual (layered), split, and whole (single sound for the entire keyboard). The JP-6 has whole, split 4-2 (4 lower, 2 upper) and split 2-4 (2 lower, 4 upper). This difference is, I presume, due to the fact that the JP-6 has two 4-voice boards, each with their own controller, one of which is only half-populated; each board takes one side of the split. Layering a 2-voice timbre with a 4-voice timbre wouldn't work correctly for more than 2-voice chords, so - no dual. The MKS-80 has whole, dual, and also *two* split modes - since this is an 8-voice synth, I don't know what the difference is between the two (any clues, MKS-80 owners?). Arpeggiator: This feature is absent from the MKS-80. The JP-8 and JP-6 both allow 1, 2, 3, or 4 octaves of arpeggiation, in up, down, or up and down directions; the JP-8 also has an additional very cool "random" setting, as heard on Duran Duran's "Rio." In the JP-8's Split mode (at least according to the brochure), the arpeggiator works only on the lower half of the split; in the JP-6, the arpeggiation can be on either or both sides of the split. Voice Assign Modes: The JP-8 features Solo, Unison, Poly 1, and Poly 2 (poly 2 uses normal polyphonic allocation as long as you play legato; once you lift your hand off the keyboard, any new notes will cut off the releases of *all* currently sounding notes. This is recommended for use with portamento). If the JP-8 is the same as the JP-6 and MKS-80, then the voice assign mode is programmable for each half of a split or layer. I am unsure about the precise implementation of Unison on the JP-8; it may simply stack 2 voices together, or it may take the more complicated approach of the JP-6 (JP-8 owners, please respond). The JP-6's Unison would play all of the voices, all of the time, dividing them as evenly as possible between all sounding notes. That means that with a single note sounding, you heard 6 voices (12 oscillators) stacked together; two notes would get three voices apiece; three notes would get two; and more than that would have one or two notes with two voices, and then the rest with a single voice. This is very cool, because it means that you can (for instance) play 4 note chords every once in a while if you *really* want to - who needs those 7ths and 9ths anyway :-) - and the rest of the time get big, doubled sounds. The JP-6 also added a solo unison feature, which would limit the voice allocation to one note at a time, but stack all six voices on that note (as opposed to solo, which uses just a single voice). The MKS-80 looks to be the same as the JP-6, but adds a programmable split point. Note that a single-note Solo mode is very cool, as some other synths insisted on stacking all oscillators for solo mode, which can make for really fat sounds, but can also cause phasing problems (especially damaging to bass sounds, in my experience). The amount of detuning in Unison mode is programmable for each side of a split in the MKS-80 and JP-6; the JP-8 does not seem to have any control over this parameter. Portamento/Glide: The JP-8 has a knob for portamento in the mod section (by the pitch-bender, mod button, etc.), so I assume that this is not programmable (and the possible modes are off, on, and upper only - you can't restrict portamento to the lower half of a split). The JP-6 has portamento as part of the Patch Preset, separately programmable for both sides of a split, and adds a choice between portamento and glissando (in which the glide is quantized into half-steps, for a staircase effect not dissimilar to cheap digital portamento :-). The MKS-80 is similar to the JP-6, except that glissando is not available (normal portamento only). The MKS-80 adds a handy feature not available on either of the keyboard models: octave transposition for each side of the split/layer, up to 2 octaves up or down. Hold: this is equivalent to the sustain pedal, but it is also a programmable parameter - that is, a sound in a Patch Preset can be permanently "held." All models can set Hold for either or both sides of a split/layer; the MKS-80 adds a "MIDI" setting, which presumably enables the sustain controller, #64. Modulation: The MKS-80 adds a number of MIDI-specific parameters, programmable separately for each side of a split/layer; some of these are part of a non-programmable modulation section on the JP-8 and JP-6 (see below). Modulation parameters include pitch bend sensitivity, VCO bend range (Wide, Normal, or Off for each of VCO-1 and VCO-2), aftertouch routing to either filter cutoff or vibrato (from LFO-2), and aftertouch sensitivity. The rate of LFO-2 is programmable for each side of the split on the MKS-80. Balance: the balance between the two sides of the split is programmable in both the MKS-80 and the JP-6; on the JP-8, it is unclear from the layout whether this is programmable or not (help me out here, JP-8 owners). Modulation Section: These are not programmable - the front panel settings are global for all Patches and Patch Presets in the JP-8 and JP-6 (as stated above, the MKS-80 stores these parameters for each side of the Patch Preset, although it's not quite as flexible - no triggered LFO modulation of the filter, for instance). Bender: On both the JP-8 and JP-6, the bender can affect pitch and/or filter cutoff, each of which has a slider for amount. VCO-1 and VCO-2 have separate on/off switches for bender modulation. The JP-6 adds a "wide" bending option, which scales the bender waaay out there for big sweeping effects (as opposed to the more usual applications of pitch bend - if the bender was received over MIDI I'd be significantly more jazzed). LFO-2: A big white button triggers LFO-2; most early Roland instruments (up through the JX-8P, at least) had a simple on/off modulation control, as opposed to a mod wheel, joystick, etc. The modulation LFO, as well, can affect both filter cutoff and pitch. Both keyboards have separate controls (sliders on the JP-8, knobs on the JP-6) for amount of LFO-2 modulation of pitch and filter cutoff. The JP-8 adds on/off switches for VCO and VCF mod, presumably so that you can temporarily disable these without disturbing your slider settings. The JP-8, curiously enough, has a knob for the LFO rise time but no control of the rate; the JP-6 has knobs for both rise time and rate. MIDI: The Jupiter-8 did not come with MIDI, but MIDI retrofits are available ($535 from Wine Country, for instance). After a MIDI retrofit, the Jupiter-8 is a reasonably capable MIDI machine. The Jupiter-6, on the other hand, came stock from the factory with the most stingy MIDI implementation I have seen: notes and program change only (not even the sustain pedal - pitch bend, mod wheel, velocity etc. are completely out of the picture). Early versions powered up in OMNI mode, although they did properly receive OMNI OFF messages; later versions can power up in POLY mode, and allow you to change the MIDI channel (although this is not memorized, which for practical purposes means that you'll leave it set to 1). That same upgrade allows the JP-6 to receive on two channels, so that the basic channel plays the upper part of a split (across the whole range of the keyboard - yippie!), and the basic channel +1 plays the lower part (again, across the whole range - and don't ask me why the lower channel plays the upper part). The MKS-80 has a more reasonable (for Roland, anyhow) MIDI implementation, with SysEx editing, velocity and aftertouch modulation, etc. Back Panel: The JP-8 and JP-6 both allow external control of the amplitude and filter cutoff, and external clocking of the arpeggiator - but the JP-8 allowed you to set the external clocking to produce 8th notes, triplets, or sixteenth notes, whereas the JP-6 offers no such control. The JP-8 also has a pedal input for portamento, and gate and cv outputs for the highest note played (i.e., only a single, monophonic line). Both feature both 1/4" and balanced XLR outputs; the JP-8, however, has separate outs for the upper and lower parts of the split. I have no info on the outputs, etc. for the MKS-80. ****** Whew! So, that's it. With the addition of a few pieces of info from MKS-80 and JP-8 owners, this article might be suitable for a FAQ - I had no idea how much effort this was going to take when I started. Yours Jupiterly, - Dan Phillips From map@cs.washington.edu Thu Nov 17 09:04:29 1994 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 1994 20:25:07 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Perkowitz To: analogue heaven Subject: Jupiter-6 vs. MKS-80 actually, there's a really good discussion of the similarities and differences between the three jupiters.. this is more a low-level thing, from looking at the manuals and stuff. i started doing the comparison for the JP6-hack-a-thon project.. so it's basically what the 80 has that the 6 doesnt here are things the MKS-80 has that the Jupiter-6 doesnt: Patch params: - PWM from keyboard - PWM polarity - VCO key follow 0-100% (VCO1, VCO2 on/off as well) - cross mod polarity - VCO mod polarity - VCF env mod polarity (instead of being at the source, ENV1) - dynamics time - dynamics level - envelope reset on/off (cool!) - ENV1/2 dynamics on/off Presets: - programmable split point - octave shift on each half of split them's the basics. m