From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu Feb 18 15:54:42 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA02024; Thu, 18 Feb 93 15:54:28 -0500 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from cs.brown.edu by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA02018; Thu, 18 Feb 93 15:54:26 -0500 Received: from miles.cs.brown.edu by cs.brown.edu (5.64+/Doorknob-1.6) id AA26574; Thu, 18 Feb 93 15:54:24 -0500 Received: by miles.cs.brown.edu (5.64+/BrownCS-1.2) id AA05075; Thu, 18 Feb 93 15:54:21 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 15:54:20 -0500 (EST) From: mike perkowitz Reply-To: mike perkowitz Subject: Re: ACID To: analogue heaven In-Reply-To: <01GUUCD2KCKY96VWM5@Jetson.UH.EDU> Message-Id: Status: OR hi. i've got a poly-800II (pretty much like yours accept that the sequencer holds more notes - like i ever sit down and program in 1000 notes one at a time - and it's got digital delay). i just recently managed to get a photocopy of a poly-800 manual from a friend. from your questions, i thought you might not have one... i could try to copy some of it or summarize, though i think eric (EIVERSO) did a good job... as for acid... what i've done is set the sequencer to repeat a single note (the lowest one of course :) or even just play that note under the hold function. then i just play with cutoff , resonance, eg int, the MG stuff (mainly 81 and 84), to get improvised effects. and i make sure to have a tape running in case it works out. i program that thing almost entirely by feel. i change this value, see how it sounds, change another, go back to the first, etc etc. to do the realtime knob-twiddling (okay, button-twiddling) i usually start with a sound that's just sort of deep and noisy. the best thing to do is to just find a voice and start twiddling. save it when you get something acidic and just make variations on that. (i'll try to look up the parameters on my favorite starting points if you like)... have fun... mike From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu Feb 18 15:25:48 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA00349; Thu, 18 Feb 93 15:23:30 -0500 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA00344; Thu, 18 Feb 93 15:23:28 -0500 Message-Id: <9302182023.AA00344@quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Received: from CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU by CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8398; Thu, 18 Feb 93 15:25:39 EST Received: from WAYNEST1 (NJE origin EIVERSO@WAYNEST1) by CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU (LMail V1.1c/1.7e) with BSMTP id 2876; Thu, 18 Feb 1993 15:25:36 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 93 11:50:15 EST From: EIVERSO@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU Subject: Re: ACID To: "CRAZY DJ (U C ME N 3D)" Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of 17 Feb 1993 21:32:03 -0600 (CST) Status: OR On 17 Feb 1993 21:32:03 -0600 (CST) you said: >Ok, I've asked this question EVERYWHERE and haven't gotten a detailed answer >(to the point) yet. When I saw this on alt.rave I thought you just wanted advice on live filtering effects. >I would like to know how to create the acid-sound. What parameters should be >set to what values, and which are to be tweaked manually? Ah-ha! You want to know how to program the thing! I'm glad you included the parameter sheet. As I mentioned, I haven't programmed one of these in a while, but I'll have a go at it. Since it has a VCF, I guess it sorta qualifies as a analog synth. :) >I have a Korg Poly800 synth mod which has: You mean this has no keyboard? No joystick either? That's a shame. At least with a joystick you could mess the sound up live. You should be able to do it through Midi, tho. >DCO1 (octave, waveform [sawtooth|square], 16', 8', 4', 2', level) Octave is up to you. The optimal waveform would be a narrow-pulse square wave, but you might get better results with the sawtooth rather than the "perfectly" square wave here. Pick any of the pitch settings that you like--one should be enough. Try level-full on for now. >mode (DCO [double|whole]) Either will work. Try whole for now. >DCO2 (same as DCO1 but with interval [0..12] and detune [0..3]) You might try setting these the same as above, or keep the level down for now. We're going for a very stripped-down "acid" sound here, after all. >noise (level [0..15]) 0 for now. >VCF (cutoff [0..99], resonance [0..99], kbd track [full|half|off], The crucial parameters to the whole sound are cutoff and resonance and the EG INT (comes later). These are the ones that you want to be able to change live. I don't think that is really possible, tho. Since I don't remember exactly how the filter section sounds, experiment with the cuttoff somewhere in the middle, same for resonance. Keyboard track of full or half should work well. The more resonance, the better the sound for most synths. Full on will often cause the filter to go into self oscillation. I think you will always have to have at least one DCO or some noise going on--at least as far as I remember, that's how it goes with the Poly 800. > polarity [inphase|outphase I GUESS], EG INT [0..15], Polarity set to 2 (I'm looking at a picture of the panel of the original Poly 800). This nomal, 1 is inverted. EG INT is the parameter that I would most want to have under live control. It controls how much the envelope affects the filter. So, set it to full for now, but you'll want to experiment with this later. > trigger [multi|single]) Don't really know, but try multi for now. >chorus ([on|off]) Off! On would be too lush for acid. :) >DEG1 "for DCO1" (attack [0..31], decay [0..31], break p. [0..31], > slope [0..31], sustain [0..31], release [0..31]) I assume 0 is shorter in most cases. I don't know what the break point does precisely, or the slope--experiment with these, I guess. Set the Attack to 0 and the decay to something short. You'll have to experiment to find the perfect decay length. It will probably be the same or longer than the filter decay in most cases. Set the sustain to 0. Release will probably sound good around the same setting as the decay--experiment with this too. >DEG2 "for DCO2" same parameters And set them the same as DEG1 for now, but if you do use the second oscillator, you'll want to experiment with different settings to affect the character of the sound. >DEG3 "for VCF & noise" same parameters Set them roughly the same but you'll want a very fast decay and release. Then again, you might not like it so fast. It's up to you. >MG (freq [0..15], delay [0..15], DCO [0..15], VCF [0..15]) MG means, I guess, modulation generator. freq=the speed of the LFO. Delay=how long it takes for the LFO to start to modulate the DCO or VCF. DCO=how much LFO modulation you want on the DCO this will give you vibrato, among other things. VCF=modulation of the filter--this can sound cool sometimes. I don't know if the last two are dependent upon modulation wheel control messages or not. Probably not. The LFO is, of course, the Low Frequency Oscillator. >MIDI (rcv ch. [1..16], prog change [0|1], bend [0..64], seq clk [ext|int]) Well, if you have another midi device that can send out program changes, then you can simulate the live filtering effect (1 is ENABLE). This is what I meant in my note in alt.rave about creating a cluster of voices and switching between them via midi. Experiment with different settings for the cutoff, resonance, and EG INT, and then group maybe 10 voices with different settings arranged in some semi-logical order (like dull to bright). You should be able to switch among them without too much of a glitch when the patch changes. At least I hope there isn't much of a glitch. This will simulate the changing of the 3 aformentioned parameters in a live setting. Of course there are other parameters you might want to change, but the three I mentioned are the crucial ones IMHO. >Then there are only three knobs: Volume, Tune, and Speed (slow..fast) >(speed is under sequencer though) To your taste. >the rest are BUTTONS!!! NO KNOBS!! YICK! and I can only change ONE >parameter at a time!! geez... Yep. It could be nicer. I can only change one parameter at a time on my Sequential Multitrak, but at least the keyboard is velocity sensitive, and I can edit the patches in real time. And where I say "for now" means that you will want ot experiment with those parameters eventually, once you get the hang of the basic acid sound. >Is it possible to get the basic acid-pulse? and someone make it phaser up >and down like good old acid-music? Try to set up a pattern in your sequencer and switch the patches. You could also try a real slow rate in the MG freq setting and apply it to the VCF. I don't know if the rate gets slow enough, tho. >I know this is easier with a Roland 101 or 303, but I can NOT find any of these >'boards anywhere! > >Also, I have an Ensoniq ASR-10 sampler keyboard.. it's cool, but someone told >me I can't do cool synth stuff (like acid) on it.. but I can use it to control >the Korg synth mod. You can do acid on anything if you know what you're doing. >Any help is appreciated!! OK, now that I spent the time to write this I *demand* that you let me know how it works out for you. >Also, any help on what stuff on this synth mod means, like what is EG INT, and >MG parameters? I think I explained that well enough, above. >Can acid be made with DCO, or does it have to be VCO? does it matter whether >you use voltage-control or digital-control stuff? I don't think it matters too much, but the reason the 303 and the 101 are really nice is because you have several controls at your fingertips for live manipulation. THe construction of the filter is crucial to the sound. Like i said, I don't know if the VCF i the Poly 800 can really come close to the right sound. A few more parameters like pulsewidth modulation or oscilator modulation of the filter cuttoff would be nice too. But there you go. :) You know, you could always but some effects pedals to pump this baby through! A good parametric EQ or even a wah pedal might be real nice. Think about it. >thanks!!! You're welcome. And as a disclaimer to anyone who disagrees with my advice: the above is all IMHO! --Eric