From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Fri May 21 19:22:46 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA21602; Fri, 21 May 93 19:22:08 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from relay1.UU.NET by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA21597; Fri, 21 May 93 19:22:07 -0400 Received: from spool.uu.net (via localhost) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA06131; Fri, 21 May 93 19:22:03 -0400 Received: from island.UUCP by spool.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL (queueing-rmail) id 192058.10734; Fri, 21 May 1993 19:20:58 EDT Received: from guam.island.com by island.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09336; Fri, 21 May 93 16:15:21 PDT Received: by guam.island.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06866; Fri, 21 May 93 16:17:29 PDT Date: Fri, 21 May 93 16:17:29 PDT From: kin@guam.island.COM (Kin Blas) Message-Id: <9305212317.AA06866@guam.island.com> To: cybpunk@well.sf.ca.us, metlay@netcom.com, ricard@axis.se Subject: Re: Leslie Simulations Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Status: OR > It's not the remember that makes me feel old. It's others who quite honestly > and through no fault of their own don't know what a Hammond etc. is. That's > what drives it home. > > - CM > Hammond? What's a Hammond? Moog? Isn't that something a cow says? Hey I thought the DX7 was the first synth? Just joking, if it makes you feel any better, I knew what a Hammond was, but before I started reading r.m.s and r.m.m.s, I thought that the "Leslie effect" was some sort of vibrato/tremolo effect built into the Hammond not some external rotating speaker thing-a-ma-jig. --== Kin Blas ==-- kin@island.com From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Fri May 21 18:23:38 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA19827; Fri, 21 May 93 18:19:39 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from nkosi.well.sf.ca.us by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA19822; Fri, 21 May 93 18:19:36 -0400 Received: from well.sf.ca.us by nkosi.well.sf.ca.us with SMTP id AA11830 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 21 May 1993 15:19:23 -0700 Received: by well.sf.ca.us (5.65c/SMI-4.1/well-930413-1) id AA25425; Fri, 21 May 1993 15:19:07 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 May 1993 15:19:07 -0700 From: Chris Meyer Message-Id: <199305212219.AA25425@well.sf.ca.us> To: cybpunk@well.sf.ca.us, metlay@netcom.com, ricard@axis.se Subject: Re: Leslie Simulations Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Status: OR It's not the remember that makes me feel old. It's others who quite honestly and through no fault of their own don't know what a Hammond etc. is. That's what drives it home. - CM From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Fri May 21 15:54:51 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13280; Fri, 21 May 93 15:53:28 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from att-out.att.com by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13273; Fri, 21 May 93 15:53:26 -0400 From: wbf@aluxpo.att.com Received: from alux1.cnet.att.com by aluxpo (4.1/DCS-aluxpo-040293) id AA25009; Fri, 21 May 93 12:44:59 EDT Received: by alux1.cnet.att.com (4.1/DCS-aluxpo_client-022293) id AA29859; Fri, 21 May 93 12:44:54 EDT Date: Fri, 21 May 93 12:44:54 EDT Original-From: aluxpo!wbf (William Fox) Message-Id: <9305211644.AA29859@alux1.cnet.att.com> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, metlay@netcom.com, meyer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Leslie Simulations Status: OR >>I'm beginning to feel old. >> - CM Metlay: >Son, I've been feeling old ever since I GOT on this damn newsgroup. >How many of us remember when analogue was all there WAS, I mean, REALLY? Boys, boys, boys! What were you doing when the Beatles played on the Ed Sullivan Show that first time in February '64? I was only (number) nine but I was watching! And how many remember when there WEREN'T synthesizers and the Theremin was the rage in electronic music? >Sumeria, 3000 BCE: >"Don't you ever get tired of bread, onions, and beer?" >"Huh? Tired of FOOD?" > >The Synth World, 1979 CE: >"Don't you ever get tired of analogue synths?" >"Huh? Tired of ELECTRONIC MUSIC?" The Galaxy, 3000 ACE: "Why would you want to go to the Terran system?" "Because they're having a concert at this cafe in Paris, Mars using old fashioned optical computers like they used in the Dim Ages!" Bill "These damned fool kids" Fox From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Fri May 21 13:46:46 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA05464; Fri, 21 May 93 13:43:15 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from nic.lth.se by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA05455; Fri, 21 May 93 13:43:13 -0400 Received: from axisab.axis.se by mail.lth.se with bsmtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0nwb7b-000MUrC; Fri, 21 May 93 19:43 MET DST Received: by axisab.axis.se (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.6) id ; Fri, 21 May 93 18:42 MET DST Message-Id: From: ricard@axis.se (Ricard Wolf) Date: Fri, 21 May 93 18:42:00 MET DST X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.0.1 12/13/89) To: metlay@netcom.com (metlay), cybpunk@well.sf.ca.us (Chris Meyer) Subject: Re: Leslie Simulations Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Status: OR > > >I'm beginning to feel old. > > - CM > > Son, I've been feeling old ever since I GOT on this damn newsgroup. > How many of us remember when analogue was all there WAS, I mean, REALLY? Well, I remember walking into a music store with lines upon lines of MS-10s, MiniMoogs, Firstman SQ-01s, SH-09s, 808s, ... the Korg PS-3200 was the only real polysynth I'd seen then (although the Prophet-5 was surely out), and I thought it was amazing ... a sequencer was a CSQ-100 or whatever, and it could control one anlogue synth if you were lucky... yes... it was a long time ago, but I think I had more fun then...when exploring a synth meant staring at the front panel for an hour, and perhaps pressing a key or two...(tears)...the CS-70 was magnificent (anyone remember these?) though it didn't sound that great but I didn't know in those days...all some sort of excitement I rarely feel today, except when someone dumps a Mini in my lap and says "fix it"...exploring a Mini-Korg or 800DV where the legends on the panel meant nothing when you were used to more modern stuff ("traveller?", "expand?"...) Ah well, back to modern times... /Ricard -- Ricard Wolf / | \ / | /- email: ricard@axis.se Axis Communications AB /__| \/ | \__ uucp: axisab.se!ricard S - 223 70 LUND / | /\ | \ Tel: +46 46 19 18 63 SWEDEN / | / \ | \__/ Fax: +46 46 13 61 30 -- "Stop! Living on video!" -- From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Fri May 21 05:30:16 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA16505; Fri, 21 May 93 05:28:57 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from nic.lth.se by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA16500; Fri, 21 May 93 05:28:56 -0400 Received: from axisab.axis.se by mail.lth.se with bsmtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0nwTPH-000MUeC; Fri, 21 May 93 11:28 MET DST Received: by axisab.axis.se (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.6) id ; Fri, 21 May 93 11:10 MET DST Message-Id: From: ricard@axis.se (Ricard Wolf) Date: Fri, 21 May 93 11:10:07 MET DST X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.0.1 12/13/89) To: metlay@netcom.com (metlay), kin@guam.island.COM (Kin Blas) Subject: Re: The infamous Leslie effect Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Status: OR > > Is a VCA the same as a TVA (Time Variant Amplitude)? Is there an FAQ > >on all this acronym stuff ... what they stand for and what they do? > > No there isn't, although maybe there should be. The term TVA was coined by > Roland and picked up by one or two other manufacturers, to replace the more > established term VCA (Voltage Controlled Amplifier) in descriptions of their > synths. The term TVA is just a bit of Adspeak, much as Korg still refuses On the other hand, in a digital synth it is in fact _not_ a VCA, since there is no control voltage involved. So anyone striving for correctness would try to find a different acronym ... like VCO -> DCO a few years ago when the Juno-6 et al came out. DCA anyone? Then again, who cares? We all know what a VCA does, so why not call it that? /Ricard, giver of conflicting opinions -- Ricard Wolf / | \ / | /- email: ricard@axis.se Axis Communications AB /__| \/ | \__ uucp: axisab.se!ricard S - 223 70 LUND / | /\ | \ Tel: +46 46 19 18 63 SWEDEN / | / \ | \__/ Fax: +46 46 13 61 30 -- "Feel like fire - feel like ice" -- From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu May 20 19:00:31 1993 Received: by magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA06935; Thu, 20 May 93 16:23:15 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu by magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA06923; Thu, 20 May 93 16:23:12 -0400 Received: by cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (AIX 2.1 2/4.03) id AA18498; Thu, 20 May 93 15:24:02 CDT From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) Message-Id: <9305202024.AA18498@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Leslie Simulations To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 20 May 93 15:24:01 CDT In-Reply-To: <8fyujuC00YUnARXHAG@andrew.cmu.edu>; from "Simon Peter Gatrall" at May 20, 93 12:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5] Status: OR Previously, Simon Peter Gatrall wrote: > > Until recently, I had never heard of a Leslie, but with all the > discussion on rec.music.makers.synth about the Hammond B3 patch in Emu's > Vintage Keys, and with the discussion here, I'm intrigued. I have a > vague understanding of the physical arrangement of the beast, but I > don't have a good idea of what it would really sound like. What are > some obvious examples of pop music that used a Leslie? The Leslie sound was one of the true hallmarks of a lot of 60's organ. Both Steppenwolf and Traffic relied fairly heavily on the effect, as did a number of other organ players (and even, some guitarists and other folk!). There were two real "thumbprint"-type effects one found with the Leslie. One was to just suddenly kick the signal into the Leslie cabinet, thereby abruptly altering several characteristics of the sound. The other, more satisfying effect, required the "real" Leslie, which had a multispeed (fast and slow) setting for the rotating horns. By switching the speed, you caused the rate of vibrato and Doppler characteristics to change, and used right (I think one finds this in Steppenwolf's "Magic Carpet Ride"), it's a very effective effect. Also, miking the Leslie cabinet can give a few more interesting tricks. I found that by using three mikes, you can get some very wild stereo effects out of the Leslie. One is used on the lower section, and panned to center. This is for bass, anyway...nothing seriously directional about bass sounds. The other two were placed on the rotation plane of the horns, about 120-degrees apart. These got panned to hard left and right, and as the horns passed, the mid and high signals would rip back and forth between the two channels. _Very_ entertaining! D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu May 20 16:24:54 1993 Received: by magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA06935; Thu, 20 May 93 16:23:15 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu by magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA06923; Thu, 20 May 93 16:23:12 -0400 Received: by cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (AIX 2.1 2/4.03) id AA18498; Thu, 20 May 93 15:24:02 CDT From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) Message-Id: <9305202024.AA18498@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Leslie Simulations To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 20 May 93 15:24:01 CDT In-Reply-To: <8fyujuC00YUnARXHAG@andrew.cmu.edu>; from "Simon Peter Gatrall" at May 20, 93 12:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5] Status: OR Previously, Simon Peter Gatrall wrote: > > Until recently, I had never heard of a Leslie, but with all the > discussion on rec.music.makers.synth about the Hammond B3 patch in Emu's > Vintage Keys, and with the discussion here, I'm intrigued. I have a > vague understanding of the physical arrangement of the beast, but I > don't have a good idea of what it would really sound like. What are > some obvious examples of pop music that used a Leslie? The Leslie sound was one of the true hallmarks of a lot of 60's organ. Both Steppenwolf and Traffic relied fairly heavily on the effect, as did a number of other organ players (and even, some guitarists and other folk!). There were two real "thumbprint"-type effects one found with the Leslie. One was to just suddenly kick the signal into the Leslie cabinet, thereby abruptly altering several characteristics of the sound. The other, more satisfying effect, required the "real" Leslie, which had a multispeed (fast and slow) setting for the rotating horns. By switching the speed, you caused the rate of vibrato and Doppler characteristics to change, and used right (I think one finds this in Steppenwolf's "Magic Carpet Ride"), it's a very effective effect. Also, miking the Leslie cabinet can give a few more interesting tricks. I found that by using three mikes, you can get some very wild stereo effects out of the Leslie. One is used on the lower section, and panned to center. This is for bass, anyway...nothing seriously directional about bass sounds. The other two were placed on the rotation plane of the horns, about 120-degrees apart. These got panned to hard left and right, and as the horns passed, the mid and high signals would rip back and forth between the two channels. _Very_ entertaining! D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu May 20 16:11:06 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA29697; Thu, 20 May 93 16:09:26 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from netcom.netcom.com by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA29685; Thu, 20 May 93 16:09:22 -0400 Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id AA28016; Thu, 20 May 93 13:09:01 -0700 From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay) Message-Id: <9305202009.AA28016@netcom.netcom.com> Subject: Re: The infamous Leslie effect To: kin@guam.island.COM (Kin Blas) Date: Thu, 20 May 93 13:09:00 PDT Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu In-Reply-To: <9305201652.AA01479@guam.island.com>; from "Kin Blas" at May 20, 93 9:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: OR >> ... It's possible to simulate the tremolo >> effect by using an LFO with a 0-degree and 180-degree phase output of a sine >> wave, and feeding this to two VCA control ins, one with the signal >> outputted to the left, the other to the right, then by adjusting the >> input trim, you can get _close_...but without the addition of the Doppler >> effect, you can't get this. > > Ah, the Doppler effect ... I knew something was missing, but I couldn't put >my finger on it! If you try to put your finger on a rotating Leslie speaker, you'll lose the finger. And if it's one of the 100-watt muthas, you'll lose the hand too. |-> > Is a VCA the same as a TVA (Time Variant Amplitude)? Is there an FAQ >on all this acronym stuff ... what they stand for and what they do? No there isn't, although maybe there should be. The term TVA was coined by Roland and picked up by one or two other manufacturers, to replace the more established term VCA (Voltage Controlled Amplifier) in descriptions of their synths. The term TVA is just a bit of Adspeak, much as Korg still refuses to call their LFOs LFOs and insists on MG (MOdulation Generator), and so on. Where things get really ugly is when you get into more arcane stuff like modulating one audio source with another; depending on whose instrument you're playing, this is called Poly-Mod, Cross-Mod, X-Mod, Linear FM, Ring Modulation (an incorrect use of the term, BTW), and Twinge. > Several people have mentioned that the Boss SE-50 does a good simulation. >Can you vary the speed of the effect? Didn't Roland/Boss discontinue this >effects box? How much for a new or used one? You can find SE50s for 350 bux or so. The vocoder is tolerable but not great when used with voice as a modulator. I will admit to being very intrigued by the many-band vocoder promised in the SE70. -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- If this is a Global Village, then I must be the Global Village Idiot....... From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu May 20 13:50:57 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA21468; Thu, 20 May 93 13:49:19 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA21463; Thu, 20 May 93 13:49:18 -0400 Received: from SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU by SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU id aa14988; 20 May 93 13:48:30 EDT To: Kin Blas Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: The infamous Leslie effect In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 20 May 93 09:52:45 PDT." <9305201652.AA01479@guam.island.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 93 13:48:24 -0400 Message-Id: <14986.737920104@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU> From: Yoshiaki_Ohshima@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU Status: OR > Several people have mentioned that the Boss SE-50 does a good simulation. >Can you vary the speed of the effect? Didn't Roland/Boss discontinue this >effects box? How much for a new or used one? yes, it can. i believe they still make it but se70 came out recently. i got it for $350 new. --aki From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu May 20 13:19:12 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA19547; Thu, 20 May 93 13:17:31 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from relay2.UU.NET by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA19536; Thu, 20 May 93 13:17:26 -0400 Received: from spool.uu.net (via LOCALHOST) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA26062; Thu, 20 May 93 13:17:25 -0400 Received: from island.UUCP by spool.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL (queueing-rmail) id 131547.17015; Thu, 20 May 1993 13:15:47 EDT Received: from guam.island.com by island.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05132; Thu, 20 May 93 09:50:37 PDT Received: by guam.island.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01479; Thu, 20 May 93 09:52:45 PDT Date: Thu, 20 May 93 09:52:45 PDT From: kin@guam.island.COM (Kin Blas) Message-Id: <9305201652.AA01479@guam.island.com> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: The infamous Leslie effect Status: OR > ... It's possible to simulate the tremolo > effect by using an LFO with a 0-degree and 180-degree phase output of a sine > wave, and feeding this to two VCA control ins, one with the signal > outputted to the left, the other to the right, then by adjusting the > input trim, you can get _close_...but without the addition of the Doppler > effect, you can't get this. Ah, the Doppler effect ... I knew something was missing, but I couldn't put my finger on it! Is a VCA the same as a TVA (Time Variant Amplitude)? Is there an FAQ on all this acronym stuff ... what they stand for and what they do? Several people have mentioned that the Boss SE-50 does a good simulation. Can you vary the speed of the effect? Didn't Roland/Boss discontinue this effects box? How much for a new or used one? --== Kin Blas ==-- kin@island.com From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu May 20 12:49:05 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA17963; Thu, 20 May 93 12:47:20 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from relay2.UU.NET by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA17958; Thu, 20 May 93 12:47:19 -0400 Received: from spool.uu.net (via LOCALHOST) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA15824; Thu, 20 May 93 12:47:12 -0400 Received: from island.UUCP by spool.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL (queueing-rmail) id 124546.15239; Thu, 20 May 1993 12:45:46 EDT Received: from guam.island.com by island.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04631; Thu, 20 May 93 09:39:43 PDT Received: by guam.island.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01460; Thu, 20 May 93 09:41:51 PDT Date: Thu, 20 May 93 09:41:51 PDT From: kin@guam.island.COM (Kin Blas) Message-Id: <9305201641.AA01460@guam.island.com> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, sg1q+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Leslie Simulations Status: OR > Until recently, I had never heard of a Leslie, but with all the > discussion on rec.music.makers.synth about the Hammond B3 patch in Emu's > Vintage Keys, and with the discussion here, I'm intrigued. I have a > vague understanding of the physical arrangement of the beast, but I > don't have a good idea of what it would really sound like. What are > some obvious examples of pop music that used a Leslie? > > -s!mon I too first heard of a Leslie on r.m.s and r.m.m.s. You know when the Leslie is turned on because the organ sound has a tremolo effect. Some examples off the top of my head: 1. "No Woman No Cry" by Bob Marley and the Whalers 2. "Biggest Part" of Me by Ambrosia 3. "Stuck With You" and alot of other songs by Huey Lewis and the News --== Kin Blas ==-- kin@island.com From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu May 20 12:08:42 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA15816; Thu, 20 May 93 12:06:28 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from PO3.ANDREW.CMU.EDU by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA15806; Thu, 20 May 93 12:06:23 -0400 Received: by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (5.54/3.15) id for analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 20 May 93 12:06:20 EDT Received: via switchmail; Thu, 20 May 1993 12:06:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix11.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 20 May 1993 12:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix11.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 20 May 1993 12:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.0.1.23.EzMail.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix11.andrew.cmu.edu.pmax.ul4 via MS.5.6.unix11.andrew.cmu.edu.pmax_ul4; Thu, 20 May 1993 12:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <8fyujuC00YUnARXHAG@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Thu, 20 May 1993 12:04:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Simon Peter Gatrall To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Leslie Simulations In-Reply-To: <13916.737911565@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU> Status: OR Until recently, I had never heard of a Leslie, but with all the discussion on rec.music.makers.synth about the Hammond B3 patch in Emu's Vintage Keys, and with the discussion here, I'm intrigued. I have a vague understanding of the physical arrangement of the beast, but I don't have a good idea of what it would really sound like. What are some obvious examples of pop music that used a Leslie? -s!mon From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu May 20 11:28:55 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13721; Thu, 20 May 93 11:26:33 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13716; Thu, 20 May 93 11:26:31 -0400 Received: from SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU by SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU id aa13918; 20 May 93 11:26:07 EDT To: wbf@aluxpo.att.com Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Leslie Simulations In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 20 May 93 10:05:12 EDT." <9305201405.AA16274@alux1.cnet.att.com> Date: Thu, 20 May 93 11:26:05 -0400 Message-Id: <13916.737911565@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU> From: Yoshiaki_Ohshima@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU Status: OR hi: speaking of which, does anyone remember the hillwood (multibox) fullrotor? i've been trying to dig up a very good article on leslies that appeared on keyboard or eq magazine. it describes in detail what makes leslie produce leslie sound and why it's not just plural tremolo and doppler effects swirling independently. does anyone remember which issue it was in? i use the boss se50, and like its capability. besides the nice leslie simulation, it also has the decent vocoder patch. rugged, true stereo, and not much costly. From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu May 20 10:08:29 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA09415; Thu, 20 May 93 10:06:47 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from att-out.att.com by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA09407; Thu, 20 May 93 10:06:43 -0400 From: wbf@aluxpo.att.com Received: from alux1.cnet.att.com by aluxpo (4.1/DCS-aluxpo-040293) id AA24669; Thu, 20 May 93 10:05:13 EDT Received: by alux1.cnet.att.com (4.1/DCS-aluxpo_client-022293) id AA16274; Thu, 20 May 93 10:05:12 EDT Date: Thu, 20 May 93 10:05:12 EDT Original-From: aluxpo!wbf (William Fox) Message-Id: <9305201405.AA16274@alux1.cnet.att.com> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Leslie Simulations Status: OR Previously, Kin Blas wrote: > Some of you on this list seem to have alot of knowledge about > sounds and synth architectures ... I'm a guitar player trying to play > and learn about keyboards and have no background in sound at all and was > wondering if it was possible to simulate a Leslie effect using an LFO, TVA, > and TVF? I've tried doing this, and it just doesn't > sound right. Am I on the right track? Should I give up? and D.A.C. Crowell replied: > Oh, _way_ wrong track. The thing that makes the Leslie effect what it is > is not just the tremolo effect done by the shifting amplitudes, there's > also a component of the sound that has to do with the Doppler effect. > Remember, in a _real_ Leslie (the big humongous type with the dual horns, I'm a guitar player, too, but I listen to the keyboard player in my band whenever he rants on about his B3 samples and simulating leslie speakers. By the way, he feels that a B3 sample he got with his ASR-10 does an admirable job of leslie simulation using the effects in the keyboard. Bob used to take three leslies on the road with him in his younger days. (They are, after all, only about 40 watts.) He says you have to consider their physical makeup: the horns are rotating at a different speed than the baffle associated with the woofer. So there's tremelo, doppler upshift as one horn approaches, simultaneous doppler downshift as the other horn retreats, and phasing and flanging effects. Not an easy thing to model in an effect unit's software! Bob suggests you buy a Boss SE-50 effects unit as it does a good job and provides you with all those other effect goodies like distortion for that Keith Emerson slightly overdriven sound. To simulate a leslie yourself requires a lot of knowledge of (a) synthesis and (b) the leslie's makeup. What machine are you using? Cheap and dirty could be chorus + tremelo but it's not as easy as that! Bill Fox P. S. Later on, there was a 100 watt model and there was a company that would hot rod a leslie with a 300 watt Crown amp and high wattage speakers. Those didn't need to be miked as they could rip your face off! From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Wed May 19 23:47:57 1993 Received: by bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13902; Wed, 19 May 93 23:47:41 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu by bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13894; Wed, 19 May 93 23:47:39 -0400 Received: by cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (AIX 2.1 2/4.03) id AA17008; Wed, 19 May 93 22:48:31 CDT From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) Message-Id: <9305200348.AA17008@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu> Subject: The infamous Leslie effect To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 19 May 93 22:48:30 CDT In-Reply-To: <9305192229.AA00237@guam.island.com>; from "Kin Blas" at May 19, 93 3:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5] Status: OR Previously, Kin Blas wrote: > > > Hi, > > Thanks to all of you who replied to my Vocoder question! > > Some of you on this list seem to have alot of knowledge about > sounds and synth architectures ... I'm a guitar player trying to play > and learn about keyboards and have no background in sound at all and was > wondering if it was possible to simulate a Leslie effect using an LFO, TVA, > and TVF? I've tried doing this, and it just doesn't > sound right. Am I on the right track? Should I give up? Oh, _way_ wrong track. The thing that makes the Leslie effect what it is is not just the tremolo effect done by the shifting amplitudes, there's also a component of the sound that has to do with the Doppler effect. Remember, in a _real_ Leslie (the big humongous type with the dual horns, about the size of an old fridge, and about as heavy as a Sherman tank), you have two actual speaker ports in rotation. Now, as these move toward the listener in the rotation plane, you get the compression, and away, the rarefaction, that one finds when you encounter the Doppler effect out in non-musical conditions. It's possible to simulate the tremolo effect by using an LFO with a 0-degree and 180-degree phase output of a sine wave, and feeding this to two VCA control ins, one with the signal outputted to the left, the other to the right, then by adjusting the input trim, you can get _close_...but without the addition of the Doppler effect, you can't get this. It's why companies have struggled long and hard to replace those damned huge cabinets with a box for so long, with such varying degrees of success. Oh, almost forgot...that tremolo solution only really works well if you've got one of those big synths with the patch cords and so forth... you know, the humongous ones, about the size of an old fridge, and about as heavy as a Sherman tank...:) D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) --