From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Wed Apr 21 19:07:13 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA24558; Wed, 21 Apr 93 19:07:02 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from sunic.sunet.se by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA24549; Wed, 21 Apr 93 19:06:56 -0400 Received: from Dublin.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (5.65c8-/1.28) id AA15118; Thu, 22 Apr 1993 01:06:51 +0200 Received: by Dublin.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/20, SunOS 4.1.1) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA08077; Thu, 22 Apr 93 01:06:49 +0200 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 01:06:49 +0200 From: Mikael Lundgren Message-Id: <9304212306.AA08077@Dublin.DoCS.UU.SE> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: I've been stolen by a gypsy. 21-Apr-1993 1843's message of Wed, 21 Apr 93 18:42:59 EDT <9304212242.AA23843@us1rmc.bb.dec.com> Subject: PerfXion. Not! Status: OR The Drummer could make modifications to its own (not user) patterns based on note density and velocity. This facility was barely documented. If all you did was create songs with their patterns, this could be useful. Eirikur Hm, I see a potential thread here. What I would like to have would be a device which could "parse" a throughput of MIDI data in a way, that hitting various controllers would make it alter the data stream in some "intelligent" way. This could be used to interact with a static rhythm pattern, for instance. Some ideas: * Real time quantization of input "hits" * A "break" pad, which makes the box emit a drum fill in line with the ongoing rhythm. * Continous control of velocity, swing, instrument type, filters etc. (E.g. Crossfading between several hihat samples) More ideas anyone? () Mikael (Vick) Lundgren | University of Uppsala, Sweden O ____ () () vick@bern.docs.uu.se {-|>*CSD - Computer Science Dept. o /.. \/| () () Studying CS @ ---------|>*DOCS - Dept. of Computer Systems (----) | )) () () Remember: Four bananas always add up to a plectrum. \____/\| () From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Wed Apr 21 18:45:59 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA23465; Wed, 21 Apr 93 18:45:48 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA23430; Wed, 21 Apr 93 18:45:26 -0400 Received: by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com; id AA14538; Wed, 21 Apr 93 15:45:09 -0700 Received: by us1rmc.bb.dec.com; id AA23843; Wed, 21 Apr 93 18:42:59 -0400 Message-Id: <9304212242.AA23843@us1rmc.bb.dec.com> Received: from ranger.enet; by us1rmc.enet; Wed, 21 Apr 93 18:42:59 EDT Date: Wed, 21 Apr 93 18:42:59 EDT From: I've been stolen by a gypsy. 21-Apr-1993 1843 To: vick@dublin.docs.uu.se Cc: analogue@ranger.enet.dec.com, eirikur@ranger.enet.dec.com Apparently-To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, vick@dublin.docs.uu.se Subject: RE: PerfXion. Not! Status: OR The Drummer could make modifications to its own (not user) patterns based on note density and velocity. This facility was barely documented. If all you did was create songs with their patterns, this could be useful. Eirikur From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Wed Apr 21 18:36:13 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA22825; Wed, 21 Apr 93 18:36:01 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from sunic.sunet.se by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA22820; Wed, 21 Apr 93 18:35:59 -0400 Received: from Dublin.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (5.65c8-/1.28) id AA13837; Thu, 22 Apr 1993 00:35:56 +0200 Received: by Dublin.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/20, SunOS 4.1.1) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA05237; Thu, 22 Apr 93 00:35:52 +0200 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 00:35:52 +0200 From: Mikael Lundgren Message-Id: <9304212235.AA05237@Dublin.DoCS.UU.SE> To: eirikur@ranger.enet.dec.com Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: I've been stolen by a gypsy. 21-Apr-1993 1758's message of Wed, 21 Apr 93 18:08:28 EDT <9304212208.AA23001@us1rmc.bb.dec.com> Subject: PerfXion. Not! Status: OR The Drummer is a cool toy, but the user interface is such a pain! In [Vague description deleted..] Eirikur Couldn't it make "intelligent" variations to the running drum patterns on the fly by hitting buttons/foot switch, or am I totally in the blue here? Is it just a drum sequencer, or a box which can make variations/suggestions to a running MIDI drum sequence in real time? This would be neat... I guess not, as the sales dropped so quickly... () Mikael (Vick) Lundgren | University of Uppsala, Sweden O ____ () () vick@bern.docs.uu.se {-|>*CSD - Computer Science Dept. o /.. \/| () () Studying CS @ ---------|>*DOCS - Dept. of Computer Systems (----) | )) () () Remember: Four bananas always add up to a plectrum. \____/\| () From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Wed Apr 21 16:52:48 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA16676; Wed, 21 Apr 93 16:52:39 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from sunic.sunet.se by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA16668; Wed, 21 Apr 93 16:52:36 -0400 Received: from Dublin.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (5.65c8-/1.28) id AA08497; Wed, 21 Apr 1993 22:52:32 +0200 Received: by Dublin.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/20, SunOS 4.1.1) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA25201; Wed, 21 Apr 93 22:52:30 +0200 Date: Wed, 21 Apr 93 22:52:30 +0200 From: Mikael Lundgren Message-Id: <9304212052.AA25201@Dublin.DoCS.UU.SE> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: metlay's message of Wed, 21 Apr 93 8:36:28 PDT <9304211536.AA16344@netcom.netcom.com> Subject: The demise of Moog, ARP, SCI, OBIE, etc. Status: OR Concerning the Perf/X-devices (gadgets) by the late Oberheim incarnation, does anyone have anything good to say about them? The Drummer, for instance looks like an interesting item to use live, at least from its specs. But has anyone tried it? (They sell for *cheapo* here in Sweden right now). Regards () Mikael (Vick) Lundgren | University of Uppsala, Sweden O ____ () () vick@bern.docs.uu.se {-|>*CSD - Computer Science Dept. o /.. \/| () () Studying CS @ ---------|>*DOCS - Dept. of Computer Systems (----) | )) () () Remember: Four bananas always add up to a plectrum. \____/\| () From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Tue Apr 20 03:09:37 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA17343; Tue, 20 Apr 93 03:08:35 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from nic.lth.se by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA17338; Tue, 20 Apr 93 03:08:34 -0400 Received: from axisab.axis.se by mail.lth.se with bsmtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0nlCRY-000MToC; Tue, 20 Apr 93 09:08 MET DST Received: by axisab.axis.se (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.6) id ; Tue, 20 Apr 93 09:07 MET DST Message-Id: From: ricard@axis.se (Ricard Wolf) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 09:07:20 MET DST X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.0.1 12/13/89) To: metlay@netcom.com (metlay), dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) Subject: Re: Prehistoric drum "computers"... Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Status: OR > > >Previously, metlay wrote: > >> > >> Hey, man, buy your Rhythm Aces NOW, while they're still only ten bux! > >> When the Orb uses one on their next album, the little suckers are gonna > >> be worth a fortune....|-> > > > >Hmmm...now that's not the prehistoric rhythm box I'd want. Lemme tell ya > >what _I_ want to find... > > [Maestro, Echolette and Alpha 77 deleted] > > Nah, how about an MTI/Crumar/Farfisa "Auto-Orchestra"? Huge box of canned > accompaniment sounds and rhythm box patterns mounted on a weird swivel- > mount tripod, complete with footpedals to control it as you play a guitar > or keyboard. Shows up on albums by Klaus Schulze and Nash the Slash, who > LIVED on Crumar, including the Multiman keyboards and bass pedals. > > Or the Bohm drumboxes featured heavily in early eighties Tangerine Dream. > > I recently saw in a music store in Dayton a Sakata drum machine. It was > the weirdest box I'd ever seen, and I could have had it for $40. But I > remembered the job Sakata did on Oberheim's midpriced lineup, and saved > my bux. Anyone know anything about the drum computer used by David Stewart > in the Eurhythmics video/song "Sweet Dreams"? Is that a Pace? I saw the video not too long ago - but with a lot of other early-eighties- videos, so I may be all messed up, but... I think the drum machine you are referring to is the MCS. It was basically a Z80-or-something-based microcomputer (NASCOM-II ?) with 16 slots (or so) for voice cards. You could get analog cards or sampled cards (I think the standard version had sampled sounds for bass, snare and 3 toms, the rest were analog simulations a la KPR-77/TR-808/TR-606-you-know). It was featured in the August (?) '82 issue of Electronics and Music Maker, forerunner of Music Technology, and indefinitely better... lot's of info on how to built small useful boxes, synthesisers, modify stuff etc etc. Not a synth review without opening the case etc... Yum yum. /Ricard -- Ricard Wolf / | \ / | /- email: ricard@axis.se Axis Communications AB /__| \/ | \__ uucp: axisab.se!ricard S - 223 70 LUND / | /\ | \ Tel: +46 46 19 18 63 SWEDEN / | / \ | \__/ Fax: +46 46 13 61 30 -- "Radio-activity - It's in the air for you and me" -- From tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Apr 19 16:17:23 1993 Received: by photon.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA12438; Mon, 19 Apr 93 16:16:39 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: by photon.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA12431; Mon, 19 Apr 93 16:16:34 -0400 From: s i n e w a v e Message-Id: <9304192016.AA12431@photon.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Subject: Re: Prehistoric drum "computers"... To: metlay@netcom.com (metlay) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 16:16:32 EDT Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Analogue Heaven Synth list.) In-Reply-To: <9304191940.AA20542@netcom.netcom.com>; from "metlay" at Apr 19, 93 12:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: OR mike says> Nah, how about an MTI/Crumar/Farfisa "Auto-Orchestra"? Huge box of canned accompaniment sounds and rhythm box patterns mounted on a weird swivel- mount tripod, complete with footpedals to control it as you play a guitar or keyboard. Shows up on albums by Klaus Schulze and Nash the Slash, who LIVED on Crumar, including the Multiman keyboards and bass pedals. >>>>>>>>>>> i saw one of these when i went home in elyria, OH. they had no idea how to work it, and the pedals were barely function.. plus, most of the stuff was all preset (nayaa.) another small town find was a roland tr.66 preset drum machine. i was down on the preset part, but they actually weren't all that bad. it was used in a church, i suppose. they wanted like $199 for it, but it may have included the PA.. it was pure... analogue heaven if i had the money, it would have been on my floor with all of its innards all around, with me trying to find a way to sync it... sines -- /\ /\ _________________s i n e w a v e___________________ /\ /\ / \ / \ / todd sines: tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu \ / \ / \ / \/ \/ 384 e17th ave, columbus, oh 43201 614 299 9529 \/ \/ \ analogue / analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Apr 19 15:40:55 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA22869; Mon, 19 Apr 93 15:40:15 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from netcom.netcom.com by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA22863; Mon, 19 Apr 93 15:40:12 -0400 Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id AA20542; Mon, 19 Apr 93 12:40:20 -0700 From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay) Message-Id: <9304191940.AA20542@netcom.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Prehistoric drum "computers"... To: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 12:40:19 PDT Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: <9304191919.AA06440@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu>; from "Andrew C. Crowell" at Apr 19, 93 2:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: OR >Previously, metlay wrote: >> >> Hey, man, buy your Rhythm Aces NOW, while they're still only ten bux! >> When the Orb uses one on their next album, the little suckers are gonna >> be worth a fortune....|-> > >Hmmm...now that's not the prehistoric rhythm box I'd want. Lemme tell ya >what _I_ want to find... [Maestro, Echolette and Alpha 77 deleted] Nah, how about an MTI/Crumar/Farfisa "Auto-Orchestra"? Huge box of canned accompaniment sounds and rhythm box patterns mounted on a weird swivel- mount tripod, complete with footpedals to control it as you play a guitar or keyboard. Shows up on albums by Klaus Schulze and Nash the Slash, who LIVED on Crumar, including the Multiman keyboards and bass pedals. Or the Bohm drumboxes featured heavily in early eighties Tangerine Dream. I recently saw in a music store in Dayton a Sakata drum machine. It was the weirdest box I'd ever seen, and I could have had it for $40. But I remembered the job Sakata did on Oberheim's midpriced lineup, and saved my bux. Anyone know anything about the drum computer used by David Stewart in the Eurhythmics video/song "Sweet Dreams"? Is that a Pace? -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can morph clay, but you can't morph Lego. (n. rothwell) From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Apr 19 15:22:48 1993 Received: by top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA00846; Mon, 19 Apr 93 15:21:48 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu by top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA00783; Mon, 19 Apr 93 15:21:35 -0400 Received: by cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (AIX 2.1 2/4.03) id AA06440; Mon, 19 Apr 93 14:19:36 CDT From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) Message-Id: <9304191919.AA06440@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu> Subject: Prehistoric drum "computers"... To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 14:19:35 CDT In-Reply-To: <9304191828.AA10781@netcom.netcom.com>; from "metlay" at Apr 19, 93 11:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5] Status: OR Previously, metlay wrote: > > Hey, man, buy your Rhythm Aces NOW, while they're still only ten bux! > When the Orb uses one on their next album, the little suckers are gonna > be worth a fortune....|-> Hmmm...now that's not the prehistoric rhythm box I'd want. Lemme tell ya what _I_ want to find... Maestro made these boxes that were about the length of a regular 19" rack panel back in the late '60s/early '70, that had a _long_ row of punch-on buttons...the kind that if you punched one button in, the others were supposed to click back out (and off, natch). Now, it had those cheesy "bossa nova", and "march" and so on type of patterns...but one thing that Maestro _didn't_ expect you to do was to deliberately punch in several buttons at the same time! When you did _that_, the end result was very complicated patterns of cross-rhythms, sometimes even patterns in time-sigs of 7 and 9, rather than _anything_ you could normally get out of the box. I've wanted to screw around with one of these things for some time...probably, I'd want to ditch the old buttons and employ regular old panel switches for the pattern controller, put it all in a rack-mount housing and so on. Can't remember the model, but I sure know what one looks like. Barring that, I'd love for someone in Europe to turn up an Echolette "Drummer One" box, or an "Alpha '77". The Echolette model is what one hears on those early Cluster, Harmonia, and yes...Kraftwerk...releases. And the "Alpha '77" was extensively used by The Can on their later albums. If any of the European readers of the list knows where used models of these can be found, please let me know. D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) -- From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Apr 19 14:35:41 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA19134; Mon, 19 Apr 93 14:34:43 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from netcom.netcom.com by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA19119; Mon, 19 Apr 93 14:34:36 -0400 Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id AA10781; Mon, 19 Apr 93 11:28:11 -0700 From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay) Message-Id: <9304191828.AA10781@netcom.netcom.com> Subject: Re: farfisa To: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 11:28:11 PDT Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Analogue Synth Mailing List) In-Reply-To: <9304191806.AA06264@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu>; from "Andrew C. Crowell" at Apr 19, 93 1:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: OR >Heee...that's a prehistoric Roland? If I can drag the price down, I might >get it just for shits and grins...:) Hey, man, buy your Rhythm Aces NOW, while they're still only ten bux! When the Orb uses one on their next album, the little suckers are gonna be worth a fortune....|-> -- mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can morph clay, but you can't morph Lego. (n. rothwell) From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Apr 19 14:10:32 1993 Received: by top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA19329; Mon, 19 Apr 93 14:08:11 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu by top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA19307; Mon, 19 Apr 93 14:08:02 -0400 Received: by cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (AIX 2.1 2/4.03) id AA06264; Mon, 19 Apr 93 13:06:03 CDT From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) Message-Id: <9304191806.AA06264@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: farfisa To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 13:06:02 CDT In-Reply-To: <9304191447.AA13902@netcom.netcom.com>; from "metlay" at Apr 19, 93 7:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5] Status: OR Previously, metlay wrote: > > > Also locally, there's a double manual Ace-tone organ at C-U Music > >here in Champaign. Italian make, quasi-portable. This thing has drawbars, > > For shame, dear boy! Ace-Tone, makers of the Rhythm Ace, are NOT Italian; > they're Japanese. A fellow named Kakehashi Ikutaro launched the company > to compete with Farfisa, but the Japanese (anticipating today's music > trends) pronounced the company name "Acid-Tone," which wrecked sales. So he > changed it to another name, that the Japanese STILL couldn't pronounce: > Roland. Heee...that's a prehistoric Roland? If I can drag the price down, I might get it just for shits and grins...:) DACC. -- From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Apr 19 17:35:47 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA29331; Mon, 19 Apr 93 17:35:01 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA29326; Mon, 19 Apr 93 17:34:59 -0400 Received: from SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU by SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU id aa02463; 19 Apr 93 17:34:48 EDT To: metlay Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: acetone = roland (was Re: farfisa ) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 19 Apr 93 07:47:12 PDT." <9304191447.AA13902@netcom.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 17:34:45 -0400 Message-Id: <2461.735255285@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU> From: Yoshiaki_Ohshima@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU Status: OR greetings, metley: >to compete with Farfisa, but the Japanese (anticipating today's music >trends) pronounced the company name "Acid-Tone," which wrecked sales. So he >changed it to another name, that the Japanese STILL couldn't pronounce: >Roland. now this is a very sore topic for roland. I have never heard about this "acidtone" bit :-) but there was a very negative brand image associated with acetone in late 60's and early 70's. acetone made horrible amps and other junk and the company was ended when everyone realized anything acetone made was junk. mind you, some of you of today might like 'em. but talk to anyeone that survived the mess of japanese synth industry in its infancy. acetone was a killer word, only heard from those who didn't know what they were doing as musicians... i'm sure roland was desperate to hide any relationships to acetone. the beginning of roland was very conservative on the other hand. they made 30~40w guitar amps and bass amps of modesty decent quality, and then added the as-1 sustainer pedal. now that was a very original circuit that roland can boast of. anyway, yamaha and kawai were already well-established as manufacturers of musical instruments and just had to launch the electronic business with their own brand names. but anything that had remotely anything to do with acetone was a joke. an interesting point to notice, though, is, as you mentioned, they threw everything away but did not abondon that rhythm box. (it was something like cr55, please correct me if i'm wrong.) in the first roland product catalog, they had that cheesy rhythm box. despite that they strongly wished nobody to recall acetone, roland's rhythm box looked closely similar to acetone's. lots of plastic push button selectors on the square-ish front panel in the wooden cabinet. whatever the brand name is we are pidgin about pronounciations. _ _ _ acetone->esu-ton, roland->lolando, how's that? --aki