From Christopher_List@sonymusic.com Tue Dec 5 13:06:05 1995 5 Dec 95 16:05:59 +0500 4 Dec 95 12:44:23 +0500 id sma001979; Mon Dec 4 10:42:42 1995 From: Christopher List Date: 4 Dec 95 11:31:21 Subject: Thanks - What's the best way to do lettering? Thanks to everyone who had tips / techniques for doing the lettering on my modular. I've decided to try a couple of things to see what I like best. - Feel free to send pointers if you tried any of these methods! 1. Pearl Paint here in the city has an "instant silkscreen" system / machine. - You bring them your image and they create a screen for you while you wait. A screen big enough for images for about 4 panels costs $7.50. - Seems pretty cost effective to me. - Then you use white enamal paint (like Testors model paint) and silk-screen it. Since I will be creating several VCO's, ADSR, etc, it seems like it wouldn't be a waste. - They had a sample in the store of enamal silk screened on metal and it was perfect - sharp image, really hard - couldn't scratch it at all. The only problem is that it's only one color and it requires some screening skill to keep to paint even and un-smudged. I did screening years ago in print shop in highschool so I kind of know how to get it right. 2. Gluing laminated paper to the panels. - This is cool 'cause I can do it in color and make it as detailed as I want and not have to worry about how it will come out. I'm thinking of coating the whole thing (panel + laminate) in some industrial epoxy or something to keep it from ever peeling up. The problem with this is that the laminate has to go beyond the edge of the paper so the paper (and the printing) can't go right up to the edge of the panel. The 3M Dynamark photo-transfer stuff sounds cool, but I'm having a hard time finding a local distributor. Anyway, thanks to all who sent info. I'll post my results to synth-DIY (since there's probably only 3 or 4 people on this list who really care)! -Topher ps I finally sat down with my uWave and my voltmeter and got into some serious testing. After about 4 hours I figured out the analogue voice structure and repaired the voices I had screwed up with my botched chip removal. It now works perfectly! -I'm all set to do the 4 ocillator out / filter-in mod. No thanks to Geoff Farr the Waldorf rep who kept promising to send me schematics. From batzman@dove.mtx.net.au Mon Dec 4 07:59:32 1995 4 Dec 95 10:59:21 +0500 4 Dec 95 10:29:50 +0500 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 01:39:43 +1030 analogue From: "The Dark force of dance" Subject: Re: Modular Panels: What's the best way to do lettering? X-Pmflags: 34078848 Sorry if this mail is 3 or 4 days late. I've been able to recieve mail but not send. There's a bug somewhere if only I could find a suitable fly swatter. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Y-ellow Christopher 'n' y'all. Ok professional anodized front pannels are done with a variety of methods however their robust-ness is due to a process called PowderCoating. This is a heat process that puts a thin film of (Some kind of) plastic over the finished product. (I'd have to ask my colleague in the metal trades for more info on the exact process) Often the dial markings are first pressed into the alumninium as indentations. Then a paint/pigment/ink is washed over the surface such that it collects in the indentations. So you end up with *SAY* white markings on a black anodized brushed aluminium extrusion or flat pannel. (As the case may be) Then the powder coating is added which sticks in all the indentations effectively gluing the markings in place and making them hard to scratch out. You can in fact scrach it out if you use a sharp-ish object like a screwdriver. It's mainly resilient to wear due to human handling. You can also simply silk screen dial marking on and then powdercoat the pannel. This works but is less robust. There also seems be a a sort of cross process where a combination of silk screen printing and anodizing is used. If I remeber correctly (ART) used this on some of their FX units. Though I didn't take too much notice. It's kind of like electroplating the paint on. But the bottom line is that for any of these processes you need to be pretty well set up. You need to be able to anodize for a start. You might find a willing electroplater that may give it a go for you. I found a jewler who helped me electroplate some gold edge connectors at one point. But that's another story. Silk screening is an art in it self. However I did use this photgraphic film called "AUTOSTAR" once to silk screen a tee shirt. You make a film and then contact print this onto a film of Autostar using ultraviolet light. Still tricky and expensive. Not really something you do quickly and inexpensively. -------------------------- Ok My solution for front pannels was based on what I could do with what I had for the best possible results and as quickly and "in-house" as possible. I have a graphix package that can draw up nice front pannels and fairly acuritely. I can only print these to paper so that had to come into the equasion somewhere. Originally I tried using clear or coloured "CONTACT". That's like this clear plastic film stuff with a sticky backing. You use it for covering surfaces and old school text books etc. The problem with this stuff is that it's shiny. Shiny front pannels are your enemy. There's always some light refelcting off them making them impossible to read. So what I needed was some kind of dull, non refective surface. I discovered this process called "Heat Pressing" this is not to dissimilar to powdercoating but can be done on just about anything. Basically the throw this plastic powder into something like a linen press. More like a linen press inside an oven. The surface of the press melts the plastic over the surface of the paper (Without distroying the graphix) and at the same time produces a sort of stipple pattern on it. This looks really cool by the way and also serves to make it non-reflective. This is different to lamination which you can get little machines for. The normal lamination is very reflective and really only suitable for photographs and business cards etc. All I use to stick the final product to the aluminium is a normal every day garden variety GlueStick. But this depends on the situation. You have to protect the edges as these will lift off in time if you're not carefull. If your pannel design means that the edges are exposed then you'll probably want to go for something a little stronger. A rubber cement of some kind perhaps. Most of the spray-on glues are fairly brittle so if your pannel suffers from warpage, these glues are out of the question. If none of these methods are workable then I use what could only be described as "Double Sided Sticky Tape". This is like a roll of masking tape but it just has sticky stuff in the inside. You stick it down on the underside of your paper and it sort of turns it into a sticky label when you peal off the backing. But note: You can't re-position it once you've started sticking it down. With the Glue stick or rubber cement you can slip it into place before the glue dries. With Double sided tape you have to be damn careful to get it right first time. And this stuff stick so well and so instantly that you'll never get it back up once it's down. Not with out ripping you lable appart anyway. But this may be your best option because this stuff wont ever lift off. Some points to note are that once the paper has been HeatPressed, it's more like sticking down a strip (Or film) of plastic. The surface is extremely resilient. However if you have pots and other bolt/screw on components, the act of tightening the pot to the front pannel will obviously twist the plastic/paper laminate and cause warping and even tearing. For this reason it's wise to cut large diameter holes to allow the nuts to tigten directly to the aluminium surface rather than the dial markings/lable. All this is hard to describe in wordage with out actually seeing it done. However the results are pretty impressive if done right. Remember though that you effectively loose your black anodized pannel which is replaced by a plastic surface. This may not appeal to you at all but that's how it works. If you absolutely must have an aluminium surface then silkscreening and powdercoating are probably your only other option. This will cost you an arm and a leg. Having said that, I actually preffer the way these plastic pannels look. They look less "StarTrek the original" and more "StarTrek TNG" :) In fact one of my favorite tricks is embedding LEDs behind the coating. You cant tell where the LEDs are until they light up. If you use a plastic difuser you can make the LEDs light up a fair area on the pannel. I also have these little switches. PCB mount momentary action with a very short travel. You can embed thes just under the surface of the pannel so that you just touch your finger on the front pannel to actuate them. Not unlike a DX7 MK I. In fact if you ever get the chance to rip apart a DX7, check out how they've done it. It's not too dissimilar from the way that I do it. I think the Roland JX8P is done the same way and maybe the Akai AX80 springs to mind. Another nice thing about doing your dial markings in a graphix package is that if you have access to a scanner, you can scann your favorite dial markings from your favorite front pannels and cut 'n' paste them together. So you could copy the front pannel of *Say* a Mini Moog (if you have one handy) and reproduce the styling to a certain degree. Even the logo if you wish. :) Personally though, I like my own designs. On my patchbay I have a picture of someone wearing a pair of headphones. Can't mistake that if you're looking for somewhere to jack your cans. :) Oh and yes it will tear and scratch pretty badly if you try. In normal use however it till take a lot of punishment. You'll wear through your finger tips before you'll wear through the heatpressing laminate. Unless you let your gear be handled by 9 foot tall punk roadies who like shifing your gear with pocket knives and pitch forks you should be ok. You'll need to do some experiments but it does work out quite well. OK Hope that helps. Be Absolutely Icebox. _ __ _ | "_ \ | | batzman@dove.mtx.net.au | |_)/ __ _| |_ ____ Batz Goodfortune | _ \ / _` | __|___ | All Electric Kitchen | |_) | (_| | |_ / / _-_|\ |_,__/ \__,_|\__|/ / / \ / ,__ \_.-*_/ |_____| South Australia Alive to Synthesize From: gstopp@fibermux.com Date: Fri, 01 Dec 95 08:58:32 PDT Subject: Re: Modular Panels: What's the best way to do lettering? On 12-1-95 Christopher List wrote: > >So, I've built a whole bunch of modules now (2 VCO's, dual LFO, dual >VCA, 2 ADSR's, State-variable filter) and have the parts to build a >whole bunch more. I've tested them all , but haven't mounted them to >my Frac-Rack panels 'cause I can't figure out how I'm going to do the >lettering and marking of the panels! > This works for me: 1. Get a piece of metal to the right shape 2. Drill all holes in it on a drill press 3. Rough it up with an orbital sander 4. Spray paint it black using Krylon Enamel 5. Use white auto pin-striping tape for borders 6. Label with those white rub-on letters you get in electronics stores 7. Spray paint it with clear enamel Yes it can be scratched if you throw darts at it, so don't just throw darts at it. Yes it's tedious but I just can't think of an easier or more direct alternative. Even if you CAD something up it would take just as long to point and click than it would to place and rub. One thing I'd like to try is one of those Brother labelling systems, with the different fonts & junk on the little strips of tape. We had one of these once on a big show tour and the whole crew fought over it, especially the guys running the mixers. - Gene gstopp@fibermux.com Subject: Modular Panels: What's the best way to do lettering? Author: Christopher List at ccrelayout Date: 12/1/95 8:09 AM The problem is that the panels are anodized black, so laser-printing onto clear decals won't work. I've tried hand writing stuff with one of those paint markers. This looks cool and campy (though it's hard to do dial markings) - the problem is the stuff rubs off it you rub it hard. So I tried coating it with acrylic coating and that dissolved the paint (and you could scratch it away). I read Batz' thing in the archives about how he did his stuff with the lamination and gluing. - This sounds cool, especially since I could use the color printer here at work (and make an eggplant-purple synth which is what my girlfriend wants to see), but I have some questions (you out there Batz?): 1. Do you laminate both side of the paper? 2. Does it hold up well? - I want to do this once and have it LAST. - I don't want the stuff to start peeling up or fading. 3. What kind of glue do you use to glue the laminated paper to the panels? - If you laminate just one side of the paper, the glue would have to be thin enough so that it wouldn't bubble or goop up, and thick enough that it wouldn't seep into the paper and dissolve the ink on the other side. I remember someone (I think it was Ric?) saying they used Letraset press-on letters and Dope to coat it. - I don't think I have the patience for this. How DO manufacturers do their front panels? - Most of the stuff I have is VERY hard to scratch. - It is paint? Is it baked on? - It's silk-screened, right? John, how did PAiA do the lettering for my Fatman? - that's pretty durable. I've tried to find places that do one-offs of that kind of work, but haven't had much luck - most print shops had no idea what I was even talking about (business people in the city are so fucking rude if they can't do what you want) - anybody have any ideas? How about any other ideas for paints and or coatings? - Batz' method seems the easiest for getting stuff that would look good and be somewhat reliable - But it would stink if it got a deep scratch - like through the paper and the laminate - I also don't want it to peel off at the corners... - Any info would be greatly appreciated, the stinky thing about banana jacks is that you have to de-soldier them to get them off of the front panel - so I don't want to do the final mounting until I get my panels lettered... -Thanks, Christopher Listopher