From map@cs.washington.edu Sun Jul 31 22:11:08 1994 Date: Sun, 31 Jul 1994 14:55:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Perkowitz To: analogue heaven Subject: sync boxes korg KMS-30 - has midi in, outx2, sync in, outx2, tape in, out. sync is switchable between 24 ppqn (roland) and 48 ppqn (korg). approx a half rack in size. i have one, and love it. $50-$75 roland msq-100. one-track midi sequencer. midi in/out. out can be a merge of in and internal. sync in/out. tape in/out (i think?). notice it only does roland sync, not korg (korg gear will run at half speed). one track sequencer easy to use, marginally useful. fits on a juno 106. it only syncs while it is playing. i owned one, sold because i had no real use for it. around $50 roland msq-700. 8 track midi OR dcb sequencer (doesnt convert from one to the other, and cant do both at once). midi in/out/thru (incl merge). sync in/out (no korg sync). easy to program, nice to use, except that there is no extra memory -- 8 tracks is all you get. and you cant mute/unmute tracks while it plays. i had one, sold it because it wasnt adequate for my sequencing needs and i already had a sync box. fairly bulky, about half a 909. around $100 roland sbx-10 and sbx-80. i dont know that much about these. they're dedicated sync boxes (as opposed to sequencers like the MSQs). midi and sync. the 80 has SMPTE as well (dont know about the 10). many many features on the 80 (probaby overkill for most applications). the 80 is bulky, again about half a 909. dont know what prices.. i've seen the 80 in the hundreds. the roland stuff often goes for much more (or people ask much more anyway) just because it's roland. on the other hand, i dont see KMSs for sale very often. probably because people keep them once they have them. :) i'd recommend a KMS-30 if you can find it. m -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anais Nin ----------------------------------------------------------------------- t i n t i n n a b u l a t i o n ----------------------------------------------------------------------- map@cs.washington.edu http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/map/ From psiborg@halcyon.com Mon Aug 22 14:23:39 1994 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 10:36:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Transistor Rhythm To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: SYNC OR SWIM (fwd) this is a repost for most of us, but i'm posting it for others that weren't here at the time. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 16 May 94 13:21:44 EDT From:Mr808@aol.com To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: SYNC OR SWIM There are many ways to sync up DIN sync devices to MIDI. Here are SOME of them. DIN Sync devices include the 202, 303, 606, 808, and Moog Source. I first tried using a TR-727 (which is similiar in Sync to MIDI capabilities to the 707) to sync my 808. The problem was, the 727 has to be the Master clock source, so I had to press start and stop on the drum machine, sending my sequencer back to the beginning of the sequence. Not a very productive way to work. I picked up an MSQ-700 in a pawn shop for $70. The advantage of using an MSQ (I believe the CSQ series will work too) is that you can use your computer to start and stop the sequence and control the tempo. I've heard that the MSQ-100 has a much"tighter" feel to it's clocking, though I've yet to confirm it. You can also use a Korg KMS-30 to MIDI to Sync. There's also a Roland Sync box (the SBX-10?). All of these devices should be dirt cheap, if you can find one. Try pawn shops for starters, or call Rogue Music in NYCNY : 212-629-5073. They're a good source of analog gear. The whole Transistor Rhythm series (I think) can be used to sync synths with arpeggiator clock inputs, such as the JP-6, JP-8, Pro-1, Prophet 600, and and a whole raft of others ( Patch a cable from TRIG OUT to the Arpeggiator CLOCK IN). Try programming a rhythm on the drum machine (using the RIM SHOT or HI AGOGO or whatever triggers the TRIG OUT)that has, say, 7 notes per measure and play a 5 note arpeggio on your Arpeggiator - you'll notice a cool weaving of the melody that takes a while to repeat itself. Give it a try. If anyone suggests buying a MIDI-CV converter for your 101, 202, or 303 - DON'T! Take the effort to learn how to program the sequencer (I guess you already have). They just don't sound the same when triggered thru CV. Experiment with the Accent and Portamento/Slide for cool acid FX. The Moog Source is a bit weird in that you have to send it BOTH DIN Sync and a TRIGger signal to clock its sequencer or arpeggiator. For those of you who are SERIOUSLY into Roland DIN Sync, I've made an interesting discovery. I went down to Radio Slack and bought some DIN jacks and a plastic box, drilled some holes in it, screwed in the jacks, and jumpered together the like-numbered pins. Then I ran Sync cables from the MSQ-700 OUT and the TB-303, TR-606, and TR-808 IN jacks. Now I can sync everthing from one source! I'm not sure how many loads one sync source can handle, but 4 seems to be NO PROBLEM! Another weird discovery is, if I push the cable to far into the 303 sync jack, which is clearly labeled SYNC IN, it works like a sync out jack to control everything else. I'm getting totally atavistic with my sequencing now, using MIDI only for controller info, mixing commands, and an occasional chord of note-on commands. The problem with MIDI is it has a really sloppy "feel" to it, and I like things to be more snappy. I know that some people can't hear the difference a few milliseconds make and are going to lay into me on this. I thought Vince Clark was crazy when he went back to analog sequencers, but now I understand why. It's because we're stuck with a music interface with timing that is completely umpredictable. Too bad the MIDI committee were too cheap to go with a time-stamping system like the Chromaface (pre-MIDI). This would solve the timing problems caused by 1) the data travelling down the cable at a slow Baud rate and 2) the delays between the instrument CPU getting the Note-On message and commanding the sound generator to play the note. Yes, I know at the time we were dealing with 1MHz 8bit CPUs, and 31 kBaud was pushing it (has anyone noticed how sluggish a Prophet 5 is w/ MIDI?), but I don't think MIDI has aged very well. It's biggest advantage is its widespread acceptance. I think it's time to move up to MIDI 2.0 w/ time-stamped data. Then someone can make a lot of money building MIDI 2.0 boxes w/ lots of MIDI 1.0 OUTS which each have programmable pre-delays that can compensate for internal processing latency in each synth. Of course people w/ workstations are going to be screwed, but hey, that's ok 'cos they're gonna wanna buy the latest and greatest digital hype anyway. Yeah, I know I've strayed from the analogue domain a bit, but I'm on vacation. I would appreciate hearing from anyone else w/ similiar timing obsessions. Peace __ __ ______ ____ ____ ____ ______________________ | \ / | | ) ( ) | /| ( ) Ordained Minister - ) | \ / | |---- -- ---- | / | ---- the Church of Roland - | \/ | | | ( ) | / | ( ) email mr808@aol.com ) | | | | ---- ---- ---- --------------------- | Roland SH-101, TB-303, TR606, TR727, TR-808, TR-909, JP-6, JP-8 | Moog MiniMoog, Source, Rogue; Oberheim Xpander; Arp 2600 | Sequential Prophet 5, Prophet 600; Yamaha DX-7IIFD; Peavey SP | Various and sundry analogue and digital effectors and doo-dads. | Recorded output: TB-404 - bleepy techno & acid trax | Ether Binge - ambience & classical electronica |-------------------------------------------------Happy Tweaking! From ms20@u.washington.edu Thu Sep 1 12:23:17 1994 Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 06:55:01 -0700 (PDT) From: HIgH TeCH To: analogue Subject: Re: sync boxes On Sun, 31 Jul 1994, Mike Perkowitz wrote: > > roland sbx-10 and sbx-80. i dont know that much about these. they're > dedicated sync boxes (as opposed to sequencers like the MSQs). midi and > sync. the 80 has SMPTE as well (dont know about the 10). many many > features on the 80 (probaby overkill for most applications). the 80 is > bulky, again about half a 909. dont know what prices.. i've seen the 80 > in the hundreds. Here's a little info on the SBX-10: Out1: 48,96,120 Out2:48,96,120 Click In/DIN-Sync/MIDI/Sync to Tape No SMPTE Programmable No Cue Points From tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu Sep 1 13:04:24 1994 Date: Sat, 20 Aug 94 11:19:47 EDT From: ~enhanced--todd sines To: "Analogue Heaven Synth list." Subject: Re: finally some luck well well-- other viable boxes for sync usage: SBX-10, SBX-80: the 10 is sync only; the 80 is SMPTE capable.. prices range from $25-75 for an SBX-10 and $50-350 for an SBX-80.. it all depends on how greedy they are..` MSQ-100, MSQ-700: these were the first roland digital MIDI sequencers. I don't know how in the hell you sequence with these things (or if you'd want to..) but the MSQ-700 does DCB for the Jupiter-6's & 8's (am I right about both of these?) and the Juno-60. expect to pay between $50-90 for the 100, $75-250 for the 700. I've seen them that high and low.. btw: if you have any more 808 leads.. let me know! todd -- ++ todd sines ~ ++++ sines.3@osu.edu / sines@sn.com / sines@well.sf.ca.us / sines@hyperreal.com ++++ 240 W.4th Ave, Columbus, OH 43201 * 614 291 0967 * pager 614 481 2746 ++ analogue heaven adminstator * ars * ELE MENT * enhanced * zinc studios Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 15:31:54 -0400 From: Ab Wilson To: Mike Perkowitz Cc: analogue heaven Subject: the usual sync stuff Mike Perkowitz writes: > the question about how to sync a 303 to midi comes up about once a month > or so.. ;) and consequently there's plenty of stuff in the archive.. > it's in a directory called din-sync/ under the archive directory/ I think you should add the Kenton Pro2/4 to this list since along with the CV/gate outs it also provides Roland din-sync and an arpegiator clock out. I use mine to sync my 606 and 100M sequencer. A very versatile little box. Ab. From 70531.2124@compuserve.com Tue Oct 18 14:00:05 1994 Date: 18 Oct 94 14:11:50 EDT From: dennis barton <70531.2124@compuserve.com> To: ANALOGUE@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: sync Mike says, >(and if you go to the archive, you'll generally found we've saved what >was finally settled on as the correct info, rather than the usual spate >of conflicting responses you get in AH discussion ;) I have read this and I disagree on a few things. Price for one. KMS30's are very rare and fetch a lot. MSQ700's are much bigger and bulkier than need be so they are cheap and undesirable compared to the others, IMO. >roland sbx-10 and sbx-80. i dont know that much about these. they're >dedicated sync boxes (as opposed to sequencers like the MSQs). midi and >sync. the 80 has SMPTE as well (dont know about the 10). many many >features on the 80 (probaby overkill for most applications). the 80 is >bulky, again about half a 909. dont know what prices.. i've seen the 80 >in the hundreds. The SBX10 is a dedicated sync box and is the Rolls Royce of sync boxes. Plenty of options, syncs to a lot of stuff including click tracks, but very rare. The SBX80 doesn't do MIDI->DIN sync unless its the master clock. It is great for SMPTE to MIDI sync and SMPTE to MIDI & DIN sync. If you are doing multitrack recording on a DOS PC, you need this as to my knowledge none of the DOS sequencers can read external time clock and send out time clock to a sync box simultaneaously. The SBX80 is great for this. For everyday use, I have used the MSQ100, SBX80, and KMS30's and they are all very good and usable. I assume the MSQ700 is too, but I've never played with one. Dennis