From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu Apr 29 07:21:36 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA20503; Thu, 29 Apr 93 07:19:49 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from ohstvma.acs.ohio-state.edu by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA20498; Thu, 29 Apr 93 07:19:48 -0400 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 07:19:48 -0400 From: Message-Id: <9304291119.AA20498@quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Received: from OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU by OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.1MX) with BSMTP id 3658; Thu, 29 Apr 93 07:20:12 EDT Received: from HASARA5.BITNET (NJE origin MAILGATE@HASARA5) by OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 3657; Thu, 29 Apr 1993 07:20:12 -0400 Received: from diamond.sara.nl by SARA.NL for analogue@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU; 29 Apr 93 13:19 MET Received: by diamond.sara.nl (5.61-AIX-1.2/1.0), id AA126033, (for analogue@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU, from sscprick@diamond.sara.nl Apparently-To: Status: OR ); Message-Id: <9304291218.AA126033@diamond.sara.nl> To: analogue@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU Subject: Re: ringmodulator Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 13:18:03 N From: Rick Jansen In message you write: >> Elektor's ringmodulator was published in a separate article, apart from the >> Formant series. It uses the 1496 'Double balanced modulator' ic. The envelope >> generator is an extra, and not really related to the ringmodulator. There was >> simply an opamp left :-) If you get book 2 mind the error in the print. >> There isn't a lot to say about the circuit really, there are a lot of R's >> for the biasing of the 1496. Two inputs, one output, and thats it. > In many synths (the Moog/Realistic MG-1 and ARP Odyssey spring to mind), the > ring modulator is simply an XOR gate fed with the pulse wave outputs from > two oscillators. Gives the typical 'bell' harmonics, but the output is of > course a digitial pulse wave of sorts, so it has a bit of a 'square wave' > sound. At any rate it's cheaper. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Call me old-fashioned, but it almost can't be. The Elektor ringmodulator contains only two ic's, the 1496 and a TL074. Plus a bunch of resistors, some 30 and a few C's. The 1496 and 074 are both cheap. This really is a low cost module, by any standard. Those two oscillators you mention, are they internal to the Ringmodulator in the Moogs and ARPs? Plus, there is more to a ringmodulator than this. The fun of a ringmodulator, as far as I now know, is in sine waves, certainly nothing with a lot of harmonics in it. -Rick Jansen -- rick@sara.nl She'a module and she's looking good From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu Apr 29 06:35:32 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA19864; Thu, 29 Apr 93 06:35:11 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from nic.lth.se by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA19859; Thu, 29 Apr 93 06:35:10 -0400 Received: from axisab.axis.se by mail.lth.se with bsmtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0noVxM-000MTvC; Thu, 29 Apr 93 12:35 MET DST Received: by axisab.axis.se (/\==/\ Smail3.1.25.1 #25.6) id ; Thu, 29 Apr 93 12:34 MET DST Message-Id: From: ricard@axis.se (Ricard Wolf) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 12:34:05 MET DST X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.0.1 12/13/89) To: , Status: OR > >Ring modulator > Elektor's ringmodulator was published in a separate article, apart from the > Formant series. It uses the 1496 'Double balanced modulator' ic. The envelope > generator is an extra, and not really related to the ringmodulator. There was > simply an opamp left :-) If you get book 2 mind the error in the print. > There isn't a lot to say about the circuit really, there are a lot of R's > for the biasing of the 1496. Two inputs, one output, and thats it. In many synths (the Moog/Realistic MG-1 and ARP Odyssey spring to mind), the ring modulator is simply an XOR gate fed with the pulse wave outputs from two oscillators. Gives the typical 'bell' harmonics, but the output is of course a digitial pulse wave of sorts, so it has a bit of a 'square wave' sound. At any rate it's cheaper. /Ricard -- Ricard Wolf / | \ / | /- email: ricard@axis.se Axis Communications AB /__| \/ | \__ uucp: axisab.se!ricard S - 223 70 LUND / | /\ | \ Tel: +46 46 19 18 63 SWEDEN / | / \ | \__/ Fax: +46 46 13 61 30 -- "There is this killing game - and my head will roll" -- From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu Apr 29 05:56:59 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA19308; Thu, 29 Apr 93 05:55:31 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA19302; Thu, 29 Apr 93 05:55:27 -0400 Message-Id: <9304290955.AA19302@quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Received: by sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl (16.7/16.2) id AA24785; Thu, 29 Apr 93 12:02:22 +0100 From: Andrea TONI Subject: -- formant and opamp -- To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 12:02:22 MET Organization: ESA-ESTEC (European Space Research and Technology Center) Keplerlaan 1 2200 AG Noordwijk (EUROPA) Phone: Int +31 1719 83606 Fax: Int +31 1719 84697 Machine: HP-UX sihp03 A.B8.05 A 9000/730 941406112 Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.33] Status: OR Hi, Rick Jansen asks about TL071 in metal case .. that the 071 was (or is) available in several standard containers FK (Chip carrier) J and JG (Ceramic dip) L (the metal one) D (small outline) P (plastic dip) .. it is anyway a revised 79-83-89 data book .. so I don't know if this still apply ... the new data book is useless .. it has two floppy with all the spice model in but forget about this *kind* of detail .. next one that claim that new is better will be shot !!! For Rick .. maybe you can try Stuut and Bruin in Den Haag (I'm really impress with this shop .. !) And another (expensive !!!) option .. would be the wonderful and extremely quiet OP27/37 .. For the crazy(and stupid .. I may add !!) esoteric hi-fi guys I can suggest the reading of "How clean is your op-amp" from Electronic World + Wireless Jan 1993 .. where they claim that some distorsion it's audible at levels approaching those of themal noise (!!!) .. so they tested a bunch of the most famous op-amp (071 and 27 included ) using a distorsion test programme that quantifies harmonics down to 140db below the signal (!!) .. Hey Rick ... I would love to hear your Formant ..I'm living in Oestgeest .. send me a mail ..Tnx .. Ciao, ------------------------------------------------ENV---ENV---ENV---------------- Andrea TONI (andrea@sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl) | | | Planetary and Space VCO-->VCF-->VCA--> DUCATI 900SS Science Division (SI) | | | ------------------------------------------------LFO---LFO---LFO---------------- From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu Apr 29 05:15:47 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA18728; Thu, 29 Apr 93 05:15:28 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA18723; Thu, 29 Apr 93 05:15:27 -0400 Received: from SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU by SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU id aa27630; 29 Apr 93 5:14:58 EDT To: till@LUCID.COM Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, Yoshiaki_Ohshima@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 29 Apr 93 00:00:17 PDT." <9304290700.AA19543@acid-rain.lucid.com> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 05:14:43 -0400 Message-Id: <27628.736074883@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU> From: Yoshiaki_Ohshima@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU Status: OR the original point being that 071 is mediocre by today's standard, and i might avoid using it at least for the main audio signal path. if 071 drastically improves it, shouldn't 1022 do it super drastically? just wondering... --aki