From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Tue Jul 20 02:49:18 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA25538; Tue, 20 Jul 93 02:47:16 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from hitwide.hitachi.co.jp by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA25532; Tue, 20 Jul 93 02:47:10 -0400 Received: from [133.144.31.130] by hitwide.hitachi.co.jp (5.65/2.7W-HINOC) id AA20648; Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:46:53 +0900 Received: from hcrlgw.crl.hitachi.co.jp by hcrlgw92.crl.hitachi.co.jp (4.1/6.4J.6) id AA16192; Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:46:52 JST Received: by hcrlgw.crl.hitachi.co.jp (4.0/6.4J.6) id AA03604; Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:46:51 JST Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 15:46:51 JST From: steve@crl.hitachi.co.jp (Steven Collins) Return-Path: Message-Id: <9307200646.AA03604@hcrlgw.crl.hitachi.co.jp> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: useful effects Status: O illuminated iconoclast sez: > i agree with heavy analog about the echo/delay, > but flange or even chorus can be a very useful and > dramatic effect- only when used once in a blue moon > though. using these guys too often bores the listener. Oooh I dunno about this at all. I find I tend to have at least a chorus on ALL the time. It just fattens out a mix, helps to separate a lot of stuff, and gives the analogus a much wider feel. A Ping pong L/R delay can do the same, but the chorus is much more subtle way of achieving the same. Listen to some of the Orb stuff (not that they're the be-all and end-all of music!). You'll never heard a drum loop without some chorus or flange (of course lots of way feedback delays as well). Flange is a very useful effect for drum loops in particular adding another dimension to the rhythm. Another effect that's useful is an early reflection (particularly of the plate variety), delay this so its about 1 beat behind the rhythm and make the reverb real tight and you get a great back lash which can mix really well. Some of my favourite rhythms use this technique... Steve --- +-------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ | Steven Collins, Visiting Researcher | email: steve@crl.hitachi.co.jp | | Hitachi Central Research Lab. Tokyo | ph: (0423)-23-1111 fax: (0423) 27-7742 | +-------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Tue Jul 20 02:22:17 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA25027; Tue, 20 Jul 93 02:20:14 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from ucscb.UCSC.EDU by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA25020; Tue, 20 Jul 93 02:20:09 -0400 Received: by ucscb.UCSC.EDU (5.65/1.34) id AA12049; Mon, 19 Jul 93 23:19:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 23:19:58 -0700 From: spaceman@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (illuminated iconoclast) Message-Id: <9307200619.AA12049@ucscb.UCSC.EDU> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, gristle@netcom.com Subject: Re: useful effects Status: O i agree with heavy analog about the echo/delay, but flange or even chorus can be a very useful and dramatic effect- only when used once in a blue moon though. using these guys too often bores the listener. From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Jul 19 20:16:49 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13578; Mon, 19 Jul 93 20:14:51 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from vixen.cso.uiuc.edu by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13571; Mon, 19 Jul 93 20:14:50 -0400 Received: from mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu by vixen.cso.uiuc.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA20873; Mon, 19 Jul 93 19:14:18 CDT Received: by mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (NX5.67c/NeXT-1.0) id AA03468; Mon, 19 Jul 93 19:04:54 -0500 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 19:04:54 -0500 From: bsanders@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Barry Sanders) Message-Id: <9307200004.AA03468@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Mor on FX usage... Content-Length: 1094 Status: O I've always thought that the most useful effect in my studio was an equalizer. There was an article a few years ago in Electronic Musician hailing the usefulness of EQ's and other less-touted FX. They pointed out some interesting applications for using one of those MIDI-controlled graphic EQ's; things like sweeping pseudo-filters (by using MIDI to sweep the center frequency and the "Q" of a parametric equalizer channel). Sounded like fun. I really used to like my old Roland Space-Echo. Why did I ever sell that thing!! (Probably because I got tired of changing the tape every couple of weeks.) Actually, I was able to coax my 1987 Yamaha REX-50 multi-FX unit to sound an awful lot like the Space Echo. Since the older DSP's used fewer stages in their FIR filters, they create a lot of distortion with each successive delay tap. I just set the feedback high, the delay time long, boost the midrange frequencies, add some digital distortion, and voila! It really is a pretty good imitation of a Space Echo. Anybody wanna trade me? :-) Barry bsanders@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Jul 19 20:14:46 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13515; Mon, 19 Jul 93 20:13:25 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from nkosi.well.sf.ca.us by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13510; Mon, 19 Jul 93 20:13:23 -0400 Received: from well.sf.ca.us (well.sf.ca.us [192.132.30.2]) by nkosi.well.sf.ca.us (8.3/8.3) with SMTP id RAA21603; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 17:13:19 -0700 Received: by well.sf.ca.us id <14273-1>; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 17:12:51 -0700 From: Chris Meyer To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, cook@stout.atd.ucar.EDU Subject: Re: How do you use your FX? - was What FX? Message-Id: <93Jul19.171251pdt.14273-1@well.sf.ca.us> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 17:12:37 -0700 Status: O Ah, yes - adding FX between VCO and VCF - used to do it all the time w/ PAiA modular. Best was a tape loop/delay. Because the VCO kept playing, even after the VCA envelope died, right? So on the next note, the old note would still be looping when you switched - you can think of it as a real weird cousin to portamento. But also, the VCO looped & layered on top of itself with tape distortion, wow & flutter etc. certainly added some character to the sound... Another "effect" is to boost the VCO to overdrive the VCF. I have little booster/mixers in my Oberheim 2-voice that can give me a 3x gain (very roughly 10dB or so), which at max makes the VCF sound like it was getting ripped through the sheet metal akin to a huge can opener as I played... - CM From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Jul 19 20:16:49 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13578; Mon, 19 Jul 93 20:14:51 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from vixen.cso.uiuc.edu by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13571; Mon, 19 Jul 93 20:14:50 -0400 Received: from mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu by vixen.cso.uiuc.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA20873; Mon, 19 Jul 93 19:14:18 CDT Received: by mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (NX5.67c/NeXT-1.0) id AA03468; Mon, 19 Jul 93 19:04:54 -0500 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 19:04:54 -0500 From: bsanders@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Barry Sanders) Message-Id: <9307200004.AA03468@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Mor on FX usage... Content-Length: 1094 Status: O I've always thought that the most useful effect in my studio was an equalizer. There was an article a few years ago in Electronic Musician hailing the usefulness of EQ's and other less-touted FX. They pointed out some interesting applications for using one of those MIDI-controlled graphic EQ's; things like sweeping pseudo-filters (by using MIDI to sweep the center frequency and the "Q" of a parametric equalizer channel). Sounded like fun. I really used to like my old Roland Space-Echo. Why did I ever sell that thing!! (Probably because I got tired of changing the tape every couple of weeks.) Actually, I was able to coax my 1987 Yamaha REX-50 multi-FX unit to sound an awful lot like the Space Echo. Since the older DSP's used fewer stages in their FIR filters, they create a lot of distortion with each successive delay tap. I just set the feedback high, the delay time long, boost the midrange frequencies, add some digital distortion, and voila! It really is a pretty good imitation of a Space Echo. Anybody wanna trade me? :-) Barry bsanders@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Jul 19 20:14:46 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13515; Mon, 19 Jul 93 20:13:25 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from nkosi.well.sf.ca.us by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA13510; Mon, 19 Jul 93 20:13:23 -0400 Received: from well.sf.ca.us (well.sf.ca.us [192.132.30.2]) by nkosi.well.sf.ca.us (8.3/8.3) with SMTP id RAA21603; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 17:13:19 -0700 Received: by well.sf.ca.us id <14273-1>; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 17:12:51 -0700 From: Chris Meyer To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, cook@stout.atd.ucar.EDU Subject: Re: How do you use your FX? - was What FX? Message-Id: <93Jul19.171251pdt.14273-1@well.sf.ca.us> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 17:12:37 -0700 Status: O Ah, yes - adding FX between VCO and VCF - used to do it all the time w/ PAiA modular. Best was a tape loop/delay. Because the VCO kept playing, even after the VCA envelope died, right? So on the next note, the old note would still be looping when you switched - you can think of it as a real weird cousin to portamento. But also, the VCO looped & layered on top of itself with tape distortion, wow & flutter etc. certainly added some character to the sound... Another "effect" is to boost the VCO to overdrive the VCF. I have little booster/mixers in my Oberheim 2-voice that can give me a 3x gain (very roughly 10dB or so), which at max makes the VCF sound like it was getting ripped through the sheet metal akin to a huge can opener as I played... - CM From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Jul 19 18:44:59 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA10087; Mon, 19 Jul 93 18:43:12 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA10077; Mon, 19 Jul 93 18:43:07 -0400 Received: from SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU by SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU id aa08977; 19 Jul 93 18:41:28 EDT To: "Kelvin (K.R.) Porter" Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, Yoshiaki_Ohshima@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU Subject: Re: How do you use your FX? - was What FX? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 19 Jul 93 16:32:00 -0100." <"3588 Mon Jul 19 17:32:34 1993"@bnr.ca> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 18:41:22 -0400 Message-Id: <8975.743121682@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU> From: Yoshiaki_Ohshima@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU Status: OR you write: >1. There are some effects that are classics... and you the latest > and greatest digital multi-fex boxes can't emulate them. > > Has anybody thought about or tried to add CV interfaces to, > (I don't know), say something like a Mutron Bi-Phase, so that it > can be MIDI-fied via a MIDI CV controller? > yes, that's been my on-going project for the studio rig. in addition to having the ultimate freedom in the voltage controlled part, i/o should have a midified mixing network and cross-bar accessibility among modules to utilize a few effect signal paths. for instance, my current project design is, a 4/6/8 multistage, tri-phase(tm), and conceptually it breaks down to the signal router network, the triphase effect circuit (expandable obviously), and the generation of the modulator signals, for each of which i'm integrating unrestricted flexibility to meet the demand of myself and a few crazy people around me. if i could establish the solid module designs, i'd apply the same philosophy to upgrade the hand-made ring modulator i used to like using a lot in the past. the crude concept for the final product is similar to moog modules, but all the user intervention is to be transmitted in midi terms so that the modern studio technology is used in conjunction with it. > If so, was it difficult? it depends. the easiest break point for the modulation effect is the lfo control. anything voltage-controlled is easy to tap in, thus, > Can anyone devise a circuit that can emulate a potentiometer > of a given resistance {10 K - 10 M} and a given taper {linear, audio}? > > Is this a worth-while project? OR are there other better alternatives? again, it really depends on what you want. emulating potentio tapers is doable to some extent. >2. Has anyone tried inserting effects between the oscillator(s) and > the filter? > > I am very curious as to what might happen if you > ran a moog oscillator output through a high-gain (shred) distortion > box and then routed it through the filter. this doesn't make much sense to me, except you are adding whatever tonal characteristics, intrinsic to the shred box, to the osc waveform. other than that things just get clipped. >recently converted to the cult of analogue. my kind of people.... --aki From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Jul 19 18:29:23 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA09362; Mon, 19 Jul 93 18:27:21 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from sunic.sunet.se by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA09357; Mon, 19 Jul 93 18:27:19 -0400 Received: from Prag.DoCS.UU.SE by sunic.sunet.se (5.65c8-/1.28) id AA20171; Tue, 20 Jul 1993 00:27:18 +0200 Received: by Prag.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/20, SunOS 4.1.1) with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA27300; Tue, 20 Jul 93 00:27:14 +0200 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 00:27:14 +0200 From: Mikael Lundgren Message-Id: <9307192227.AA27300@Prag.DoCS.UU.SE> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Forrest Cook's message of Mon, 19 Jul 1993 15:48:19 -0600 <9307192148.AA14692@stout.atd.ucar.EDU> Subject: How do you use your FX? - was What FX? Status: OR Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 15:48:19 -0600 From: Forrest Cook Kelvin R. Porter says: >2. Has anyone tried inserting effects between the oscillator(s) and > the filter? Gee, that sounds like an interesting idea. It would be trivial to add a 1/4" stereo "insert" connection there on many synths, now that I've On a more serious topic, how'bout a effect loop? One jack send, one/two jacks return. And a pot for mix, or better yet, let be modulated from eg/lfo/whatever. The Proteus modules belong to the few who have seen the wiseness of this installment, but of course, this makes more sense on a multitimbral unit. _________________ || o _ o o o o | Mikael "Vick" Lundgren (vick@bern.docs.uu.se) || .[_].o o o o | Studying CS at the Univ. of Uppsala, Sweden. || _______________| << Comp.Sc.Dept>> << Dept. of Comp. Systems >> || ||| ||| || ||| | \\_|______________/"All I wanna do is see you, don't you know that it's true" From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Jul 19 17:51:05 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA07493; Mon, 19 Jul 93 17:48:24 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from ncar.ucar.edu by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA07488; Mon, 19 Jul 93 17:48:23 -0400 Received: from stout.atd.ucar.edu by ncar.ucar.EDU (5.65/ NCAR Central Post Office 03/11/93) id AA19907; Mon, 19 Jul 93 15:48:21 MDT Message-Id: <9307192148.AA14692@stout.atd.ucar.EDU> Received: from bitter.atd.ucar.edu by stout.atd.ucar.EDU (5.65/ NCAR Mail Server 04/10/90) id AA14692; Mon, 19 Jul 93 15:48:20 MDT To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: How do you use your FX? - was What FX? Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 15:48:19 -0600 From: Forrest Cook Status: O Kelvin R. Porter says: >2. Has anyone tried inserting effects between the oscillator(s) and > the filter? Gee, that sounds like an interesting idea. It would be trivial to add a 1/4" stereo "insert" connection there on many synths, now that I've hacked into my Pro-One, I may have to try this out. Many mixing boards have this kind of feature on the channels, it's pretty useful. for effects. I wonder what a Quadraverb would do in the middle of a synth. Forrest Cook cook@stout.atd.ucar.edu WB0RIO {husc6|rutgers|ames|gatech}!ncar!stout!cook From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Jul 19 17:37:35 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA06617; Mon, 19 Jul 93 17:33:01 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from x400gate.bnr.ca by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA06611; Mon, 19 Jul 93 17:32:54 -0400 X400-Received: by mta x400gate.bnr.ca in /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/; Relayed; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 17:32:40 -0400 X400-Received: by /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/; Relayed; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 17:32:32 -0400 X400-Received: by /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/; Relayed; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 12:32:00 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 16:32:00 +0000 X400-Originator: /DD.ID=1585204/G=Kelvin/I=KR/S=Porter/@bnr.ca X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars735.b.587:19.06.93.21.32.32] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: How do you us... From: "Kelvin (K.R.) Porter" Message-Id: <"3588 Mon Jul 19 17:32:34 1993"@bnr.ca> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: How do you use your FX? - was What FX? Status: O Howdy! I have some related questions. 1. There are some effects that are classics... and you the latest and greatest digital multi-fex boxes can't emulate them. Has anybody thought about or tried to add CV interfaces to, (I don't know), say something like a Mutron Bi-Phase, so that it can be MIDI-fied via a MIDI CV controller? If so, was it difficult? Can anyone devise a circuit that can emulate a potentiometer of a given resistance {10 K - 10 M} and a given taper {linear, audio}? Is this a worth-while project? OR are there other better alternatives? 2. Has anyone tried inserting effects between the oscillator(s) and the filter? I am very curious as to what might happen if you ran a moog oscillator output through a high-gain (shred) distortion box and then routed it through the filter. Please forgive me if these questions are old hat... I am a newbie and recently converted to the cult of analogue. Regards, Kelvin R. Porter From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Tue Jul 20 14:55:52 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA27580; Tue, 20 Jul 93 14:53:01 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from att-out.att.com by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA27549; Tue, 20 Jul 93 14:52:49 -0400 From: wbf@aloft.att.com Received: from bianca by aloft (4.1/DCS-aloft-040293) id AA04844; Tue, 20 Jul 93 14:37:17 EDT Received: by bianca (4.1/DCS-aloft_client-020793) id AA16547; Tue, 20 Jul 93 14:37:14 EDT Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 14:37:14 EDT Original-From: aloft!wbf (william.b.fox) Message-Id: <9307201837.AA16547@bianca> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: useful effects Status: OR D. Andrew C. Crowell wrote: > Another popular technique for fattening sounds used in a lot of Nashville > production work uses a harmonizer. By ever-so-slightly detuning a signal, > then remixing it with the original source, you get the DSP version of > oscillator detuning. With the right modicum of control, the end result is > a wonderfully lush sound, with no trace of any sort of delay effect that > you get from chorusing. This is _my_ favorite fattening technique...fills > a sound out wonderfully! Last week I was away in a class to learn the AT&T DSP1610 (architecture, instruction set, development tools) and was, therefore, away from my computer. I accumulated over 400 email messages! I've been enjoying the effects discussion very much. Let me add to Andrew's Nashville effect report. I've been told that it is better to detune up instead of down. Detuning down makes the pitch sound flatter than detuning up makes the pitch sound sharp. For some (psychoacoustical) reason, the ear tolerates the upshift a little better. -- Bill Fox * Fox's Den Recording Studio * Nazareth, PA * wbf@aloft.att.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "This is being an example to the topic under hand. And the response. Always to note the complaints in order of these manuals; this will never let us down." - Dr. Mike Metlay From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Jul 19 08:33:21 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA04160; Mon, 19 Jul 93 08:32:25 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from beta.hut.fi by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA04155; Mon, 19 Jul 93 08:32:23 -0400 Received: by beta.hut.fi; id AA11399; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 15:32:16 +0300 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 15:32:16 +0300 From: Matti J Saavalainen Message-Id: <9307191232.AA11399@beta.hut.fi> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: What FX units do you use? In-Reply-To: <9307190116.AA07265@tpl68k0> References: <9307190116.AA07265@tpl68k0> Status: OR Mark Bower writes: > > ..analogue sound ... > ...nice ... effects units. TC 1210 Stereo Chorus/Flanger/Spatial Expander from t.c. electronic is a great-sounding analogue unit. It is based on the t.c. electronic chorus pedal, and does a few additional things. It can operate in mono in-mono out, mono in-stereo out, stereo in-stereo out (yes, it is a true stereo unit), dual mono mode, and two in-four out mode. Dynamic range is 100 dB. It doesn't have memory, only knobs. To my ears, the sound is breath-taking. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? "A star fall, Matti Saavalainen a phone call, it joins all, matti@hut.fi synchronicity" ( The Police ) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Mon Jul 19 03:36:23 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA00208; Mon, 19 Jul 93 03:34:09 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from hitwide.hitachi.co.jp by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA00193; Mon, 19 Jul 93 03:33:59 -0400 Received: from [133.144.31.130] by hitwide.hitachi.co.jp (5.65/2.7W-HINOC) id AA12326; Mon, 19 Jul 93 16:33:48 +0900 Received: from hcrlgw.crl.hitachi.co.jp by hcrlgw92.crl.hitachi.co.jp (4.1/6.4J.6) id AA01962; Mon, 19 Jul 93 16:33:47 JST Received: by hcrlgw.crl.hitachi.co.jp (4.0/6.4J.6) id AA18264; Mon, 19 Jul 93 16:33:45 JST Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 16:33:45 JST From: steve@crl.hitachi.co.jp (Steven Collins) Return-Path: Message-Id: <9307190733.AA18264@hcrlgw.crl.hitachi.co.jp> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: useful effects Status: OR Gristle sez: > I have found that the most useful effects seem to be > simply reverb and delay. I never use chorus, flange, multitap, > resonators. Funny that. I find the flange and choruses particularly useful when treating monophonic sources. For example, the Yamaha CS range can sound a little thin, but beef them up with a chorus or flange and you get a much richer and more pleasant sound. But that's self-obvious I suppose. I, too, rely heavily on delays and reverbs, but the flange is usually used on drum loops, and I also love to pitch shift regular drums to get great growl loops. I don't currently have distorters or overdrive FX, but would use them if I had. An effect I've founf to be _very_ useful, particularly for analogue arpeggios is the auto-pan. Can get some great swirls this way, and if you can gate the pan and control it from the keyboard then its all the better. The FX box I use is a cheapie SPX 90 from Yamaha, and I find it very useful though a little noisy. Stick a Juno with its noisy noisy chorus through the SPX reverb and prepare for a veritable white-noise wind storm... Steve From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Tue Jul 20 17:01:59 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA06170; Tue, 20 Jul 93 16:57:52 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from uucp4.netcom.com by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA06164; Tue, 20 Jul 93 16:57:49 -0400 Received: from dms.UUCP by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06450; Tue, 20 Jul 93 13:57:43 PDT Received: from curly.agames.com by agames.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18298; Tue, 20 Jul 93 13:54:35 PDT Received: from epikt.agc.com by curly.agames.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13648; Tue, 20 Jul 93 13:54:37 PDT Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 13:54:37 PDT From: dms!curly!grigsby@netcom.com (Spiral Death Trap) Message-Id: <9307202054.AA13648@curly.agames.com> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Detuning Status: OR How does one detune without delaying and still sound nice? The "pitch shift" boxes I remember would have a really obvious loop where they'd run out of sample space and catch back up with the current sound, resulting in "poing poing poing" noises. It tried to wait for another attack to retrigger, so it worked OK for short staccato parts, but that was it. Let me see if I got this straight: Flanging just shifts a variable delay around. Reverb is mixed feedback delays with LPFs in the feedback. Is there any difference between "phaser" and "flanger"? And what exactly is a chorus doing that a flanger isn't? All these layman's terms get me confused. >^/ Not to mention that compressors are usually used in the studio to do the opposite of what you'd think- namely, _expand_ the apparent dynamic attack of an instrument...Studio recording: equal parts science and black magic. "Got any spare pantyhose?" // g From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Tue Jul 20 17:45:51 1993 Received: by top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA10091; Tue, 20 Jul 93 17:42:49 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu by top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA10086; Tue, 20 Jul 93 17:42:47 -0400 Received: by cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (AIX 2.1 2/4.03) id AA25827; Tue, 20 Jul 93 16:41:55 CDT From: dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (Andrew C. Crowell) Message-Id: <9307202141.AA25827@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Detuning To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 16:41:54 CDT In-Reply-To: <9307202054.AA13648@curly.agames.com>; from "Spiral Death Trap" at Jul 20, 93 1:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5] Status: OR Previously, Spiral Death Trap wrote: > > > How does one detune without delaying and still sound nice? The "pitch > shift" boxes I remember would have a really obvious loop where they'd > run out of sample space and catch back up with the current sound, resulting > in "poing poing poing" noises. It tried to wait for another attack to > retrigger, so it worked OK for short staccato parts, but that was it. Ah...no, I don't think one of the modern-day "pitch shifters" will really work well at this. For the trick I'd mentioned, you need a real harmonizer...my fave being the Eventide 949. The new stuff just isn't of the same level of sophistication as one of those, even though the 949 is _old_ stuff, over a decade or so. > > Let me see if I got this straight: Flanging just shifts a variable delay > around. Reverb is mixed feedback delays with LPFs in the feedback. > Is there any difference between "phaser" and "flanger"? And what exactly > is a chorus doing that a flanger isn't? All these layman's terms get > me confused. >^/ Not to mention that compressors are usually used in the > studio to do the opposite of what you'd think- namely, _expand_ the apparent > dynamic attack of an instrument...Studio recording: equal parts science > and black magic. "Got any spare pantyhose?" Flanging sweeps a delay of a very short duration across a very small time window, creating the phase-shift effects you find in it. Reverb is really a complicated thing that is delay minus early reflections. The difference between a phaser and a flanger is that a phase shifter is a simulation of the effect a flanger does, and it's done by sweeping a filter across a signal, rather than using the "comb filtering" effect that's part of flanging. No, compressors are used to mash a signal's dynamic range down to a smaller width to make it manageable, _expanders_ widen the dynamic range, and if you take these two devices to their processing extremes, you get limiters and gates, respectively. And studio recording equals equal parts of science, insanity, and voodoo. Take a chicken into the studio next time you cut anything...it'll improve your S/N ratio! :) Next time, we'll explain the hysteresis curve as it's used in bias signals in analog recording. Bring percodan. :) D.A.C. Crowell Computer Music Project/School of Music University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign (dacc@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu) From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Wed Jul 21 10:18:18 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA11421; Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:14:02 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from att-out.att.com by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AB11416; Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:14:00 -0400 From: wbf@aloft.att.com Received: from rosalind by aloft (4.1/DCS-aloft-040293) id AA13935; Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:02:35 EDT Received: by rosalind (4.1/DCS-aloft_client-020793) id AA22159; Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:02:32 EDT Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:02:32 EDT Original-From: aloft!wbf (william.b.fox) Message-Id: <9307211402.AA22159@rosalind> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Detuning Status: O Previously, Spiral Death Trap wrote: > How does one detune without delaying and still sound nice? To which D. Andrew C. Crowell responded: > Ah...no, I don't think one of the modern-day "pitch shifters" will > really work well at this. For the trick I'd mentioned, you need a real > harmonizer...my fave being the Eventide 949. The new stuff just isn't > of the same level of sophistication as one of those, even though the 949 > is _old_ stuff, over a decade or so. I have a Roland VP70 ("Vocal Processor"). In one of its modes, it can produce up to four pitch shifts of the input. I can set it up to send a down-shift out the left output and an up-shift out the right output. Pan these hard left and right or closer in to the original's pan position as desired. This beast does some nice shifting, though I wish I knew what the Eventide Harmonizers sounded like for comparison. Can the Digitech Vocalist do this type of detuning? -- Bill Fox * Fox's Den Recording Studio * Nazareth, PA * wbf@aloft.att.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Glub-blug dip woot-boof wammie, hofr, horf, horf." - Patrick Robinson From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Fri Jul 23 10:33:32 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA15249; Fri, 23 Jul 93 10:27:36 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA15232; Fri, 23 Jul 93 10:27:18 -0400 Message-Id: <9307231427.AA15232@quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Received: by sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl (16.7/16.2) id AA00363; Fri, 23 Jul 93 16:32:56 +0100 From: Andrea TONI Subject: -- Useful Efx -- To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 16:32:55 MET Organization: ESA-ESTEC (European Space Research and Technology Center) Keplerlaan 1 2200 AG Noordwijk (EUROPA) Phone: Int +31 1719 83606 Fax: Int +31 1719 84697 Machine: HP-UX sihp03 A.B8.05 A 9000/730 941406112 Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.33] Status: OR Hi, Pitch shifting and Harmonizing are certainly very useful to add more grunge .. but in most of the Fx units the parameter you can tune are a bit too simple .. In the (wonderful) VP70 the 4 picth shifter can only be tune +-12 and fine tune +- 32 (?) .. no delay no feedback .. In the old Yamaha REX 50 there is a super nice PS algorithm .. (sadly for one detuned voice only ..) where you can .. Tune +-12 fine Tune +-100 Delay 300ms ( or 350 ..?) Feedback 0-100% It is possible to get more drastic changes with this kind of control .. Now .. any good(rich) soul would provide infos on how the Eventide PS works .. ?? Is it possible to have this kind of control on more then just one voice 2 .. would be great 4 .. would be heaven .. ??!?? I guess you'll need a very very powerful DSP in order to pitch transpose- delay-feedback 4 different voices .. ! How does the Rocktron Intellifex handle its 4(or was it 8 ?) PS .?? Does anybody know of a budget-multifx that allows this kind of PS control (2 or more PSs with detune,finedetune,delay and feedback) ? Another cool feature is to have the feedback ratio in + and - 100% like in the Fx section of the JD800 (and I guess in all the recent Roland/Boss multifx boxes). This kind of Fx is perfect for few-notes-repetitive-analog-pattern (a la' oldTangerineDream..) very spacey ! Ciao, ------------------------------------------------ENV---ENV---ENV---------------- Andrea TONI (andrea@sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl) | | | Planetary and Space VCO-->VCF-->VCA--> DUCATI 900SS Science Division (SI) | | | ------------------------------------------------LFO---LFO---LFO---------------- From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Fri Jul 23 14:55:49 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA01794; Fri, 23 Jul 93 14:52:25 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from Sun.COM by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA01782; Fri, 23 Jul 93 14:52:21 -0400 Received: from Eng.Sun.COM (zigzag-bb.Corp.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09871; Fri, 23 Jul 93 11:52:18 PDT Received: from pesto.Eng.Sun.COM by Eng.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00799; Fri, 23 Jul 93 11:52:21 PDT Received: by pesto.Eng.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06726; Fri, 23 Jul 93 11:51:57 PDT Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 11:51:57 PDT From: Jeff.Dinkins@Eng.Sun.COM (Jeff Dinkins) Message-Id: <9307231851.AA06726@pesto.Eng.Sun.COM> To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Analog FX X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 614 Status: O I've just joined this mail alias, so please forgive me if I'm asking questions that are answered in some FAQ somewhere. I also asked this question in rec.music.*.synth. 1) I just bought a Rhodes Chroma, and am wondering if anyone knows what it takes to connect one of these beasties to an apple2 computer (the synth came with this brochure that described that one was available at the time). Is a special card needed? Software? 2) It only came with the one tape which has the 150 factory sound patches. Does anyone have/know where to find other patches (on cassette)? thanks, jeff From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Fri Jul 23 12:29:13 1993 Received: by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA22995; Fri, 23 Jul 93 12:26:50 -0400 Errors-To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Sender: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Received: from [131.104.48.1] by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA22962; Fri, 23 Jul 93 12:26:15 -0400 Received: from redcap.cis.uoguelph.ca by snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca (5.64/1.35) id AA19756; Fri, 23 Jul 93 12:25:24 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 12:24:07 -0400 (EDT) From: David Evans Subject: Analog FX To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O This is sort-of the reverse of the current FX thread, but have people tried using their analog synths *as* effects processors? The balanced modulators on my PAIA modular have come in really useful for really grimy sounds, and you sure can't beat a Minimoog as a wah-peddle. :) ============================================================================= David Evans devans@snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca Computer/Synth Junkie University of Guelph "A man melts sand so he can Guelph, Ontario, Canada see the world outside" - U2/Lemon From Mike@erasure.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 24 04:27:11 1993 Received: from erasure.demon.co.uk by quark.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (5.65/3.910213) id AA24710; Sat, 24 Jul 93 04:27:03 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Jul 93 09:09:39 GMT Message-Id: <164@erasure.demon.co.uk> From: Mike@erasure.demon.co.uk (Mike Hall) Reply-To: Mike@erasure.demon.co.uk To: analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Analog FX Lines: 19 X-Mailer: PCElm 3.01 (1.4 DIS) Status: O In message you write: > > This is sort-of the reverse of the current FX thread, but have people > tried using their analog synths *as* effects processors? The balanced > modulators on my PAIA modular have come in really useful for really grimy > sounds, and you sure can't beat a Minimoog as a wah-peddle. :) > > > ============================================================================= > David Evans devans@snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca > Computer/Synth Junkie > University of Guelph "A man melts sand so he can > Guelph, Ontario, Canada see the world outside" > - U2/Lemon > > Try putting a signal through the external signal processor on a Korg MS20 for a real grungy sound or maybe a VCS3 for that authentic Dr Who noise.. Mike Hall